Calling All Christians: Apostasy In The Pulpit? (Vanity)

Me | October 23, 2006 | ROTB

[ROTB]

Dear Freepers,

My friend and I attended our local "Mainline Evangelical Church" this past Sunday, and we heard what we suspect to be serious doctrinal error preached from the pulpit.

First thing during the Question and Answer time, my friend took the opportunity to point out the error in the teaching, but the preacher was adamant.

Before we fight this guns blazing, we wanted to run our first salvo in this fight by the faithful Christians of FreeRepublic, and make sure we're not making any wrong assumptions. We're not looking for stylistic, grammatical, or diction related errors (we'll fix 'em). We want to make sure we're on the money with regard to sound biblical exegesis, and doctrine before we fight this.

Thank you for your time,

ROTB

[kerryusama04]

Perhaps this ought to go in "religion"?

[labette]

later study ping

[claptrap]

Perhaps you could redefine enemies King David might
have been lamenting the struggle within himself.
And asking God to remove the internal drives within him
which had caused him so much grief.
Your pastor might not have looked at it this way
but I think that that is the interpretation.

[claptrap]

Another question for you would you
stand around preaching while someone was killing or torturing your family?
This turn the other cheek passage should not be taken
as a command to suicide, you are definitely a very confused person and I hope you regain clairty soon.

[claptrap]

Another question for you would you
stand around preaching while someone was killing or torturing your family?
This turn the other cheek passage should not be taken
as a command to suicide, you are definitely a very confused person and I hope you regain clairty soon.

[muawiyah]

Your preacher is trying to trick you. Time to go somewhere else.

[Uri’el-2012]

We should not be following the prcepts of the Old Testament
if they are in conflict with the teachings of the New Testament.
Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of the Old Testament and in so
doing gave us the New Testament.
It supersedes the Old Testament.
Jesus healed people on the Sabbath.
The priests tried to chastise Jesus for what they believed
was his lack of respect for the Old Testament (Septuagint) laws.
They tried to tell Jesus that he was breaking Old Testament rules.
(Exodus Chap 20 Verse 10) Not to work on the Sabbath.

You need a better understanding of the whole Word of G-d.

There is no conflict between the Old and the New Testament.

Only bad Exegesis
The same G-d wrote both the old and the new.

Y'shua had a conflict with the religious elite,
who imposed a thousand more rules for the Sabbath
than was required by G-d.

The difference was the Holy Word of G-d
verses the man-made Traditions.

b'shem Y'shua

[wea]

The minister is correct. Turning the other cheek is technically the right thing to do. That is what ultimately destroyed the Roman Empire. Today, it's harder because there are few who are fundamentalists in their hearts. Check catholicfundamentalism.com to see a new approach, God programmed enough particles to make the world, as we know it, in a week.
We are given free will on this world to see if we value Him more or less than what He created. One way we show that we value Him is obedience. Ergo, turn the other cheek.

[LiteKeeper]

There is no conflict between the Old and the New Testament.

AMEN!!!!

[William Terrell]

Well, like it or not Muslims want to kill Christians and Christianity.

[ladyinred]

I agree with you! There is not really conflict between the old and the new.

[Silly]

applying this Psalm

Let me share something that might help you:

First, I have a high view of scripture. All of it, every word of the 66 books in our canon, is God's word. To disbelieve, disobey, or even doubt it is a sin, and it is our life's occupation to study it. Taking such a view will, surprisingly, lead to a wondrous and joyful adventure.

Having said that:

Recently I have listened to some insightful sermons of my pastor. (God has used this man for his glory.)

I am learning that one way to appreciate the Psalms is to realize they are the Psalmist's deepest emotions, poured out to God. Try to understand them in this way. When you use the words "apply", I am not sure it is absolutely the most helpful way to look at them. Of course, we apply all of God's word to our lives. However, there are some passages which would pose a problem if we tried to "apply them" in the way you seem to struggling with this Psalm (or the teaching you heard).

For instance, how do you apply, "Judas went out and hanged himself"? Well, you don't "apply" it, at least not in the same way you apply, "Show kindness to one another." Instead, you learn the whole context of the passage, find God's message, and learn from it.

One thing you can learn from the Psalms: You are free to pour out your emotions to God, completely, utterly, crying out and sobbing if you need to. You can say the wrong words. You can get your theology wrong when you pray to God. Be honest, ask him to help you, and throw yourself at him for mercy, strength and guidance.

He will always listen, loving you and planning special surprises to unleash in your life. You are completely safe. Absolutely, completely safe.

Read the Psalm again, and put yourself in the Psalmist's place. Where was he? What were his circumstances? Why was he having the emotions he was having?

One more thing to remember as a conservative. Liberals seem to have a problem with emotions. They live by them, celebrate them, and wallow in them. Emotions are a terrible guide when you need wisdom.

But conservatives have a problem with emotions as well, just a different one. They are afraid of them. They find it hard, especially in the company of other Christians, to admit to their deepest emotions, and are often offended by those who show them, especially the really scary, ugly and strong emotions.

Pray your fears. Pray your tears. Don't stuff them, don't celebrate them. That is what the Psalmist is doing. Emotions can be a wonderful path to a deeper prayer life, and, in the end, will eventually turn to praise. Read the very last few Psalms and see the unmitigated praise they convey.

Give this a bit of thought, read a couple of Psalms with this in mind, and let me know what you think.

Silly

[Dad x 3]

There is no conflict here.
In Psalm 35, David is asking the Lord to defend him from his actual enemies (not from his internal struggles, as suggested in Post #2). He's not taking matters into his own hands; he's leaving them in God's hands, and asking Him to act with justice.
If this is in conflict with the NT, is Paul himself in conflict as well? Read what he writes in I Corinthians 5:5, regarding an immoral person who is allowed to exist unchallenged within the Body: "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Also, In Romans 13, Paul writes about us respecting governing authorities, and he mentions that they carry a sword for a reason. It is "a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil."
So...scripturally, can I rejoice that our police force is armed and will use force to quell evil (contrary to what seems to be happening in Britain and France)? Amen, I can. And BTW, our Constitution, as a governing authority, gives me the right to bear my own "sword" in defense of my family as well.
Whether I use force, or my government uses force, isn't it just possible that through the "destruction of the flesh" of evil people, that some of them can find redemption at the Cross, once they come to themselves?

Again, there is no conflict here.

[Uri’el-2012]

Psalm 35

Take comfort today in verse 3

say unto my soul: 'I am Thy salvation.'

Rejoice -- YHvH has become my salvation.

Yah'shua, the name of the L-rd.

His Name gives us hope as it do for David,
YHvH has become my Salvation.

b'shem Yah'shua

[kerryusama04]

There is no contradiction from Genesis to Revalation. David is praying for justice, not for malice.

Psa 35:12 They repay me evil for good, To the bereavement of my soul. Psa 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth; I humbled my soul with fasting, And my prayer kept returning to my bosom.Psa 35:14 I went about as though it were my friend or brother; I bowed down mourning, as one who sorrows for a mother. Psa 35:15 But at my stumbling they rejoiced and gathered themselves together; The smiters whom I did not know gathered together against me, They slandered me without ceasing.

David did the Christian thing here while his enemies repaid him evil for good.

Psa 35:26 Let those be ashamed and humiliated altogether who rejoice at my distress; Let those be clothed with shame and dishonor who magnify themselves over me. Psa 35:27 Let them shout for joy and rejoice, who favor my vindication; And let them say continually, "The LORD be magnified, Who delights in the prosperity of His servant."

Here, it looks like David wants his enemies brought low so they will humble themselves to the Lord.

Psa 35:17 Lord, how long will You look on? Rescue my soul from their ravages, My only life from the lions.

How long, Lord, will You look at this sinful planet before executing Your Judgement? Lord, I pray, you rescue my soul as well.

[Dad x 3]

Wonderful insight, Silly!

I've often pointed friends to Psalms as a way of getting to know who God is, but in the last ten days or so, circumstances have changed.

I've had several friends dealing with such anguish in their lives, and wondering if they're freaks for feeling such despair, and for despairing that God is even around at all. On each occasion, I've been able to point to the longing and emotion with which David and others have written there... the doubt ("How long or Lord?"), the despair ("I am weary with sighing, Every night I make my bed swim, I dissolve my couch with my tears"). Through them, I've been able to point out that God truly understands what they're going through and has compassion for them.

God truly meets us where we live, and He understands even when we cry "WHY, GOD?" I'm also reminded of Isaiah's prophesy of Jesus, that He is a man aquainted with our sorrows. He knows what it's like to be misunderstood, to lose a friend, to be betrayed. And He loves and embraces and heals.

Thanks for such a good reminder.

[Dad x 3]

Oops, sorry...Post #4

[Dad x 3]

Great tagline!

[Silly]

Thanks.