Posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:31 PM PDT by NYer
Thanks, I didn't see Kolo's post before I posted mine in #14, which is why I said "which" Orthodox church. But I guess he beat me to it. Not bad for an "old" Greek. :)
Apropos the article, what is there to "disagree" with the Pope on this? He merely quoted a Byznatine emperor who appraently knew the Muslims better than some of our politicians!
I read somewhere - perhaps on FR? - that the Turkish government (can this be correct?) - has legislated that no one can become Ecumenical Patriarch unless he was born in Turkey????
Is that true????
There was a situation decades ago in some Latin American countries where American missionary Fathers, members of Religious Orders (e.g. Carmelites) could not become Bishops of dioceses if they continued to hold American citizenship.
But it struck me that for a secular or Islamic government yo shackle a whole Church, like the Greek Orthodox Church, in the naming of its own Patriarch, would be like the Italian government forbidding the election of anyone as Pope who had not been born in Italy.
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"I read somewhere - perhaps on FR? - that the Turkish government (can this be correct?) - has legislated that no one can become Ecumenical Patriarch unless he was born in Turkey????"
As a practical matter, yes. The law now is that to be elected Patriarch, one must hold Turkish citizenship, but that's not something that just happens. +Athenagoras was the last non-Turkish born Patriarch. The EP has asked the Turkish government to allow any Orthodox clergyman to be elected and then give him Turkish citizenship as a dual citizen, but Turkey refuses.
Thanks for the ping Coleus.
To all posters:
Just an aside here...
I've noticed in many articles and must comment.
Catholic Church, should be capitalized.
Pope, should be capitalized.
I notice the words Muslim and Islam are always capitalized...I'd like the same respect shown.
This is the same great friend of ours, Turkey, that does not allow Kurds to name their children with Kurdish names, and does not allow Kurdish language in schools, yet they just can't understand why European Union just doesn't let them in not yet but close)!
BTW, once Turkey is in, tthe Turks can settle anywhere in member countries without a visa or permit, open up business and bring their entire harem with them. Accepting Turkey into the EU will be undoing centuries of Christian work of keeping significant numbers of Mohammedans out of Europe.
Norway brought 500 Pakistani refugees from Bangladesh (when it was East Pakistan) and today they have thousands. Sweden now has Muslim-majority districts. Islam will win Europe without a single bullet (of their own). The Europeans will use their own on themselves.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/20/europe/EU_GEN_Turkey_Orthodox_School.phpThere were violent protests two years ago at the headquarters of the Ecumenical Patriarch in Istanbul where the the Patriarch was burned in effigy. It should be pointed out that the seminary would not even be in Istanbul but on an island.
No wonder Benedict XVI used RECIPROCAL once today and RECIPROCITY after that . . .
Europe has bent over backwards (and forwards) to offer Muslims freedom of religion.
And in return . . . . ??????????
I hear ya..it's out of respect.. I think this was the topic of a previous thread. But if you read the Catechism, even the one posted of the Vatican, they seldom capitalize those words, not even his or him when referring to God and Jesus.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2.HTM
The Koran teaches "Do not make friends with Christians and Jews..." How can a devout Muslim ignore this and try to have a "peaceful coexistence" with Christians and Jews? He would also be ignoring the fact that the Koran teaches that those who are not believers must be converted, one way or another.
Muslims are also encouraged and allowed to deceive the infidel. And they do.
The lines will be drawn eventually. The more we procrastinate, the worst it will be.
YES...BUT FOR "THEM" when THEY'LL REALIZE THEY HAVE GONE TOO FAR....TO DEFUSE ALMIGHTY GOD'S WRATH!!
There's more to it,
http://www.hr-action.org/thr/GRTURK.html#RELIG
Of late, under the Islamist Turkish government it is getting worse.
Those particular Christians must have missed the scripture "be faithful unto death".
The situation in many Latin American countries is that only locally born nationals can be priests or pastors. Long story in that.
I know you hear me. Thanks.
Wonder what's up with the writers? On purpose or just stupid?
probably just stupid or just don't care.
Ratzinger is a clear headed theologian. He accepted the Patriarch's invitation to Turkey last year but was denied entry by the government. Once that had been settled, he continued with his plans to visit Turkey and celebrate the Feast of St. Andrew with the Patriarch, in Istanbul. Despite death threats, those plans have not been canceled and I would suggest that we ALL pray for his safe pilgrimage and journey to this holy land.
My heart goes out to the Patriarch whose hands are tied by the Turkish gov't. Interestingly enough, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is seen as a long-standing supporter of European Union entry for Turkey. "Our country is a bridge between the East and the West," stated the patriarch. "We do not think the European Union should be only a club limited to Christians." Whereas, before becoming pope, Benedict had made known his opposition to Turkey joining the EU.
Your thoughts?
"Interestingly enough, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is seen as a long-standing supporter of European Union entry for Turkey. "Our country is a bridge between the East and the West," stated the patriarch. "We do not think the European Union should be only a club limited to Christians." Whereas, before becoming pope, Benedict had made known his opposition to Turkey joining the EU."
In many ways, its the EP's only hope for survival in Constantinople, NYer.
I understand. And that is precisely my point! By lending his support to the Patriarch, their voices will resonate more loudly. JPII returned the relics of St. Gregory of Nazianzen, and St. John Chrysostom. What better gift can BXVI bring than his support for the Patriarch, even at the personal risk of his life.
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