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Darwin on the Right: Why Christians and conservatives should accept evolution
Scientific American ^ | October 2006 issue | Michael Shermer

Posted on 09/18/2006 1:51:27 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

According to a 2005 Pew Research Center poll, 70 percent of evangelical Christians believe that living beings have always existed in their present form, compared with 32 percent of Protestants and 31 percent of Catholics. Politically, 60 percent of Republicans are creationists, whereas only 11 percent accept evolution, compared with 29 percent of Democrats who are creationists and 44 percent who accept evolution. A 2005 Harris Poll found that 63 percent of liberals but only 37 percent of conservatives believe that humans and apes have a common ancestry. What these figures confirm for us is that there are religious and political reasons for rejecting evolution. Can one be a conservative Christian and a Darwinian? Yes. Here's how.

1. Evolution fits well with good theology. Christians believe in an omniscient and omnipotent God. What difference does it make when God created the universe--10,000 years ago or 10,000,000,000 years ago? The glory of the creation commands reverence regardless of how many zeroes in the date. And what difference does it make how God created life--spoken word or natural forces? The grandeur of life's complexity elicits awe regardless of what creative processes were employed. Christians (indeed, all faiths) should embrace modern science for what it has done to reveal the magnificence of the divine in a depth and detail unmatched by ancient texts.

2. Creationism is bad theology. The watchmaker God of intelligent-design creationism is delimited to being a garage tinkerer piecing together life out of available parts. This God is just a genetic engineer slightly more advanced than we are. An omniscient and omnipotent God must be above such humanlike constraints. As Protestant theologian Langdon Gilkey wrote, "The Christian idea, far from merely representing a primitive anthropomorphic projection of human art upon the cosmos, systematically repudiates all direct analogy from human art." Calling God a watchmaker is belittling.

3. Evolution explains original sin and the Christian model of human nature. As a social primate, we evolved within-group amity and between-group enmity. By nature, then, we are cooperative and competitive, altruistic and selfish, greedy and generous, peaceful and bellicose; in short, good and evil. Moral codes and a society based on the rule of law are necessary to accentuate the positive and attenuate the negative sides of our evolved nature.

4. Evolution explains family values. The following characteristics are the foundation of families and societies and are shared by humans and other social mammals: attachment and bonding, cooperation and reciprocity, sympathy and empathy, conflict resolution, community concern and reputation anxiety, and response to group social norms. As a social primate species, we evolved morality to enhance the survival of both family and community. Subsequently, religions designed moral codes based on our evolved moral natures.

5. Evolution accounts for specific Christian moral precepts. Much of Christian morality has to do with human relationships, most notably truth telling and marital fidelity, because the violation of these principles causes a severe breakdown in trust, which is the foundation of family and community. Evolution describes how we developed into pair-bonded primates and how adultery violates trust. Likewise, truth telling is vital for trust in our society, so lying is a sin.

6. Evolution explains conservative free-market economics. Charles Darwin's "natural selection" is precisely parallel to Adam Smith's "invisible hand." Darwin showed how complex design and ecological balance were unintended consequences of competition among individual organisms. Smith showed how national wealth and social harmony were unintended consequences of competition among individual people. Nature's economy mirrors society's economy. Both are designed from the bottom up, not the top down.

Because the theory of evolution provides a scientific foundation for the core values shared by most Christians and conservatives, it should be embraced. The senseless conflict between science and religion must end now, or else, as the Book of Proverbs (11:29) warned: "He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind."


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To: presently no screen name
If we oppose Him we can't be like Him.

Actually it was the first act in defiance of God -- the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge -- that worried God that man was about to become "as one of" Him. It is when we exercise our free will and attempt our own understanding that we are most like Him.

681 posted on 09/20/2006 2:17:28 PM PDT by Celtjew Libertarian ("Don't take life so seriously. You'll never get out of it alive." -- Bugs Bunny)
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To: presently no screen name
If we oppose Him we can't be like Him.

Well, technically, from a Biblical standpoint, once we acquired the knowledge of good and evil, we became like God.

Opposition to God the Father may lead to retribution, but it doesn't change our likeness to God. After all, the very act of acquiring the knowledge of good and evil (which rendered man "as one of us") was in opposition to God's command.

682 posted on 09/20/2006 2:19:09 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: RadioAstronomer
A large number of my colleagues are leaving the Republican Party for this very reason. They feel that the conservative movement is anti science.

They FEEL!???

I guess they'll fit right in with the Lib's then!

683 posted on 09/20/2006 2:19:56 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian

How odd. And I truly had not seen your reply.


684 posted on 09/20/2006 2:20:48 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: DoctorMichael
To let folks know that you can be a legit scientist and still be a conservative at the same time......."

As well as.....

To let folks know that you can be a legit CREATIONIST and still be a conservative at the same time......."

685 posted on 09/20/2006 2:20:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Liberal Classic
Good post. It deserves to be repeated.

While I've been doing some ACTUAL work this afternoon, I've not been watching these threads and am now playing catchup.

I wonder about the few posts above.

What where THEY that they deserved ZOTTI NG?

686 posted on 09/20/2006 2:23:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Here is where definitions get in the way.

Kinda like the Mormon's definitions of a lot of 'christian' words seem to mean something else in their context.

687 posted on 09/20/2006 2:26:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: donh
Does your local church hire skeptics to test your faith, and provide a publishing forum for them to air their suspicions?

Don't have to!

The world does that for free!

688 posted on 09/20/2006 2:31:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: js1138
 
Just treating other people with love and respect.

Just like our Mentor....


NIV Matthew 11:19-24
 19.  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
 20.  Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
 21.  "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
 22.  But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
 23.  And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.  If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
 24.  But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
 

NIV Matthew 23:13-39
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
 15.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 
 
689 posted on 09/20/2006 2:34:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
My understanding of that passage is, therefore, that God did not create man in an instant, but did so over a period of time, in which man had earlier, cruder forms.
 
Mine is different.
 
 



 
Isa 48:3 ... I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of My mouth, and I shewed them; I did [them] SUDDENLY, and they came to pass.
 



Genesis 1
 
 1.  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
 2.  Now the earth was  formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
 3.  And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
 
 
This is a GOD who creates by speaking; but; how LONG did it take?
 
Now Jesus was a man who had God-like powers.  Was HE God?   The Book says so.......
 
 
 
 
NIV Colossians 1:13-17
 13.  For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
 14.  in whom we have redemption,  the forgiveness of sins. 
 15.  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
 16.  For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
 17.  He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
 
 
NIV Revelation 4:11
   "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
 
 
NIV Revelation 10:6
   And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

 
Notice that when this man speaks, things happen RIGHT NOW!   Not after some times passes and the body heals itself.
 
 
 
NIV Matthew 8:2-3
 2.  A man with leprosy  came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
 3.  Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured  of his leprosy.
 
 
NIV Matthew 21:19
   Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.
 
 
NIV Mark 1:41-42
 41.  Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!"
 42.  Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.
 
 
NIV Mark 5:41-42
 41.  He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!").
 42.  Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished.
 
 
NIV Mark 10:51-52
 51.  "What do you want me to do for you?" Jesus asked him.   The blind man said, "Rabbi, I want to see."
 52.  "Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
 
 
NIV Luke 5:13
  Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And Immediately the leprosy left him.
 
 
NIV Luke 5:24-25
 24.  But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ." He said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home."
 25.  Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God.
 
 
NIV Luke 8:44
  She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and Immediately her bleeding stopped.
 
 
NIV Luke 13:12-13
 12.  When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity."
 13.  Then he put his hands on her, and Immediately she straightened up and praised God.
 
 
NIV Luke 18:42-43
 42.  Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."
 43.  Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus, praising God. When all the people saw it, they also praised God.
 
 
NIV Acts 9:33-35
 33.  There he found a man named Aeneas, a paralytic who had been bedridden for eight years.
 34.  "Aeneas," Peter said to him, "Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and take care of your mat." Immediately Aeneas got up.
 35.  All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.
 
 
NIV Matthew 8:13
 13.  Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
 
 
NIV Matthew 15:28
 28.  Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


 
Now if this same personage, who does things in an instant;  how LONG would it take Him to CREATE all that we find around us???


690 posted on 09/20/2006 2:37:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: js1138; presently no screen name
Unless God has spoken the text of the bible directly toy, you are reading the word of men.

Likewise...

Unless you've actually dug out the fossils, studied them, rated, ranked and classified them; you, too, are taking the 'word of men.'

691 posted on 09/20/2006 2:40:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Warrior of Justice

There is positive evidence that there was no worldwide flood.


692 posted on 09/20/2006 2:40:32 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: Religion Moderator; NewLand
If evo threads are consigned to a science forum, that wouldn't eliminated the heated discussion. If discussion on the evo threads were limited to science, these posts would eventually dwindle in number because there isn't that much hard scientific evidence for evolution -- just a lot of speculation and philosophically-based interpretation of evidence. Why not place the evo discussion threads under a new forum, called "Alchemy"?
693 posted on 09/20/2006 2:43:02 PM PDT by My2Cents (A pirate's life for me.)
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To: stands2reason

be *absolutely certain* to specify that the worldwide flood of which there is no evidence is the mythic one which is said to have drowned even the tallest mountains to a depth of yay-or-so meters...

don't let 'em 'scape crawdadwise, by trying to make out the worldwide drowning of coastlines at the close of the last Ice Age as the literal equal of the mythic deluge.


694 posted on 09/20/2006 2:43:53 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: spunkets
 They made certain claims which contradict the words of Jesus in John 9 and their first claim directly contradicts Ezekiel 18, the very chapter cited by the Council as a justification.
 
Ok......
 
John 9
 
 1.  As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
 2.  His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
 3.  "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
 4.  As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.
 5.  While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
 6.  Having said this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes.
 7.  "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
 8.  His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, "Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?"
 9.  Some claimed that he was.   Others said, "No, he only looks like him."   But he himself insisted, "I am the man."
 10.  "How then were your eyes opened?" they demanded.
 11.  He replied, "The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see."
 12.  "Where is this man?" they asked him.   "I don't know," he said.
 13.  They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind.
 14.  Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man's eyes was a Sabbath.
 15.  Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. "He put mud on my eyes," the man replied, "and I washed, and now I see."
 16.  Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."   But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.
 17.  Finally they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened."   The man replied, "He is a prophet."
 18.  The Jews still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man's parents.
 19.  "Is this your son?" they asked. "Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?"
 20.  "We know he is our son," the parents answered, "and we know he was born blind.
 21.  But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don't know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself."
 22.  His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for already the Jews had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ  would be put out of the synagogue.
 23.  That was why his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."
 24.  A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. "Give glory to God, " they said. "We know this man is a sinner."
 25.  He replied, "Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"
 26.  Then they asked him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"
 27.  He answered, "I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?"
 28.  Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
 29.  We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from."
 30.  The man answered, "Now that is remarkable! You don't know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
 31.  We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
 32.  Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
 33.  If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."
 34.  To this they replied, "You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!" And they threw him out.
 35.  Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
 36.  "Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
 37.  Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
 38.  Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. 
 39.  Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
 40.  Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"
 41.  Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. 
 
Ezekiel 18
 
 1.  The word of the LORD came to me:
 2.  "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: "`The fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?
 3.  "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.
 4.  For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
 5.  "Suppose there is a righteous man who does what is just and right.
 6.  He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of the house of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor's wife or lie with a woman during her period.
 7.  He does not oppress anyone, but returns what he took in pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked.
 8.  He does not lend at usury or take excessive interest. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between man and man.
 9.  He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live,   declares the Sovereign LORD.
 10.  "Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things
 11.  (though the father has done none of them): "He eats at the mountain shrines. He defiles his neighbor's wife.
 12.  He oppresses the poor and needy. He commits robbery. He does not return what he took in pledge. He looks to the idols. He does detestable things.
 13.  He lends at usury and takes excessive interest. Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.
 14.  "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
 15.  "He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of the house of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor's wife.
 16.  He does not oppress anyone or require a pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked.
 17.  He withholds his hand from sin and takes no usury or excessive interest. He keeps my laws and follows my decrees. He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live.
 18.  But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
 19.  "Yet you ask, `Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
 20.  The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
 21.  "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
 22.  None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
 23.  Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
 24.  "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
 25.  "Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
 26.  If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.
 27.  But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life.
 28.  Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die.
 29.  Yet the house of Israel says, `The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
 30.  "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
 31.  Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?
 32.  For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

695 posted on 09/20/2006 2:45:40 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Feeble!!

feeble???

pout.....

696 posted on 09/20/2006 2:47:57 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Religion Moderator

You've gotta be kidding me.


697 posted on 09/20/2006 2:48:38 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: balrog666

You are slowing down!


698 posted on 09/20/2006 2:48:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

?


699 posted on 09/20/2006 2:54:28 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: NewLand

So you're saying that a Religion Moderator asking someone to stay off of a thread is equivalent to that Religion Moderator leaving the Republican party? I know I've always thought logic was absolute but it appears that at least one other poster here thinks it is relative, so I think I need some help making the connection from A to B.


700 posted on 09/20/2006 2:55:29 PM PDT by ahayes (My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure.)
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