BIRTH OF MARY, September 8th

EWTN.com ^ | not giben | A. Valentini

[RobbyS]

If one are an evangelical who, unlike Luther or Calvin, chooses simply to ignore history, minimize the importance of the ancient creeds, and deny Mary the title Theotokos, you are left with little doctrine regarding the Trinity. One is in effect a Nestorian or even an Arian without knowing it. Jesus is divine but not THE GOD, or Jesus is man but not true man.

[Campion]

Catholics are "ripped on" because they do things that are outside of Biblical teaching.

Who set you up as an authority on "Biblical teaching"? I don't recognize your authority to teach me, sorry.

[DungeonMaster]

They say that because it is biblical.

[Gamecock]

Sometimes we can all forget that we must make an accounting for everything we say or do---or put in print .

If this was posted in just poor taste, well, tackiness isn't a sin.

Either Alex's name is in the book of life or it isn't. If my good elect brother Alex did sin by posting that, it was nailed to a cross 2,000 years ago. Our High Priest will intervene.

[Campion]

Blasphemy (putting locker room language in the mouth of the All-Holy Bearer of God) isn't the way to get your point across.

And your point is bogus anyway, because it rejects the whole concept of intercessory prayer, which is clearly taught in the NT.

Grow up.

[Campion]

If my good elect brother Alex did sin by posting that, it was nailed to a cross 2,000 years ago.

Does repentance have a place in your belief system?

[HarleyD]

This one is really in bad taste.

C'mon. It might be tongue in cheek but Alex's paragraph succiently makes its point. Why can't you pray to George the Plumber instead of Mary? Are there special things Mary does that St. George doesn't do? (Although if memory serves me correctly there's already a saint of plumbing.)

In the final analysis, God shows NO partiality-to anyone. I would say when the scriptures state that, it includes Mary. Mary asking our Lord Jesus to do something at a wedding and granting it has been blown totally out of proportion. Many people asked things of our Lord. Most of the time He granted their request. A few times He didn't. Do you think Mary has more clout than James and John?

The Assumption of Mary by William Webster

[CT-Freeper]

The post that Alex had up wasn't his own words, they were from The Onion, a satire website & newspaper.

It's also not allowed to be posted on FR (their choice, I think). That's probably why it was deleted.

[Gamecock]

My belief system?!? What do you mean by that? < perplexed>

[Gamecock]

Mary asking our Lord Jesus to do something at a wedding

Preface: IMHO Mary certainly is someone to be admired and held in high esteem by all Christians.

Serious question: If Mary is at the level where our Catholic friends place her, why couldn't she change the water into wine herself?

[Running On Empty]

Because she was not True God and True Man. It's that simple.

But she knew Who was.

[RobbyS]

You beg the question about Sola Scripture, which asserts that the literal text of Scripture must be cited for each doctrine. However, the doctrine of the saints in heaven is taken for granted in the Apocalypse(Revelations), where the martyrs demand justice. To explain this away, Protestants have to resort to the doctrine of the "Great Sleep," where the death lie unconscious until the Resurrection, and the events that John relates apply only to the End Times. But even they do not deny that the relations we share with one another disappear with death. If I can ask my mother for help, and to pray for me when I am away from her, why not after she is is with God?

[Convert from ECUSA]

Lovely picture! Happy birthday, dear Lady!

[Gamecock]

Prophets in Scripture were able to perform miracles to validate their own position. If Mary was who the Catholics say she was, wouldn't she be able to perform miracles to validate it (And I don't mean giving birth to God incarnate, that was not something she stood up and did, but was placed on her by God.)

Not trying to be obstinate or a thread crasher, just trying to understand....

[bigcat32]

Can you site an example in the Bible instructing me to pray to anyone or anything other than God? Non-Catholics consider prayers to Mary outside of Biblical teaching and that's why they get "ripped on". Do you understand that?

[newberger]

Harley,

We CAN ask George the Plumer to pray for us if he is a departed believer. Who said we can't?

[bigcat32]

I believe I understand your point however praying to someone or something other than God is specifically addressed scripturally. Where is the line drawn between "asking for help" and worship? What's wrong with prayer to The Father through The Son?

[wmfights]

Thanks.

That was a great link.