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To: TomSmedley
Judaism is not a cult. As distortions of other religions, mormonism and islam could be seen as cults. Judaism, on the other hand, pre-dated Christianity and is a valid religion in its own right. That doesn't even begin to address that it was instituted by God Himself.

I'm sure the author is talking about the murder, mayhem, and prejudice directed toward Jews....pogroms, holocausts, anti-Jewish laws, etc.

Those things you mention: justification, evangelization, and spirituality are not "practical" issues within Christianity. They are directly addressed, biblical, doctrinal issues. These are things that MUST be taught.

Persecution of Jews, on the other hand, is not a Christian doctrine.

12 posted on 09/01/2006 7:57:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins; TomSmedley
Judaism is not a cult. As distortions of other religions, mormonism and islam could be seen as cults.

Which form of Judaism -- hasidic, orthodox, traditional, conservative, reform, reconstructionist, humanistic/secular -- represents real Judaism today?

Would you say that reconstructionist or reform Jews observe the same central tenets as orthodox Jews?

That doesn't even begin to address that it was instituted by God Himself.

Which of these forms of Judaism did God institute?

Persecution of Jews, on the other hand, is not a Christian doctrine.

Can we not universalize this to say persecution of anyone is not a Christian doctrine? By singling out Jewish people you make it into a specialized "hate crime" category.

17 posted on 09/01/2006 8:18:19 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: xzins
You seem to be arguing with Jesus on this point. The rabbinc/talmudic Judaism of his day exalted human say-so above God's Word to such an extent that it rendered God's Word null and void on point after point. During the donnybrook recorded in John 5 Jesus said,Like Mormonism, or the Unification Church, or David Berg's "Family of Love," rabbinic Judaism exalted human teaching above divine revelation, and offered an alternate, works-based plan of salvation -- just do what the rabbis/Joe Smith/Moses David/Sun Myung Moon say. It can be argued that the Judaism of our Lord's day had soaked up the Roman idea of salvation by law.

Now Jesus Himself called the religion of his day a cultic distortion of what God had in mind, a distortion so severe as to fatally obscure God's revelation for man. But I suppose you know better ...

26 posted on 09/01/2006 8:45:55 AM PDT by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: xzins; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Persecution of Jews, on the other hand, is not a Christian doctrine.

Absolutely true. But persecution of the Jews is no more a part of supercessionism than it is of dispensationalism.

As regards the history of Jewish persecution in the Middle Ages, let's not pretend that was theological. It was wholly political and economic. Thus, Mr. Ice is disingenuous to blame a Christian theology for those atrocities.

40 posted on 09/01/2006 9:29:56 AM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: xzins

I've noticed that throughout Scripture, God will discipline His children, and we will frequently interpret that discipine from the perspective of receiving it as being His wrath. On the contrary, many unbelievers receive His mercy in a seemingly disproportionate fashion to our blessings if one is looking at purely worldly and fleshly perspectives.

In His policy of grace, He nearly always warns those He is about to destroy or heavily discipline. That merciful and graceful method of warning always affords the degenerate believer an opportunity to return to Him.

We frequently associate the endtimes tribulation on the Jewish nation and identify that nation with today's Israel. However, frequently God's recorded discipline of Israel is focused upon those who were believers rather than disbelieving people in Israel.

Since now is the Age of Grace, and time of the Gentiles surrounding Israel, IMHO, Gentile nations will probably make many of the same blunders as did Israel throughout the Old Testament, as a testimony to the angels of unfinished business regarding the old sin nature, and as a predecessor of a time when Satan is unbound for but a short time and later cast into the bottomless pit.

In all of this, I don't see the import of an unbelieving Israel, as much as the grace and discipline of a believing Israel. Likewise, Gentiles are still discernible from the Jews from their Abrahamic heritage.

I suspect the doctrines of justification, regeneration, redemption, propitiation, repentence, reconciliation, and spirituality all play a major role not only in the times of Gentiles, but in displaying to humans and angelic beings alike, His plan, perfect justice and perfect righteouness in His past decisions and even more future plans for all eternity.

My intuition is that many of the aspects of Prophecy which are frequently associated with worldly perspectives are beeter understood from spritual perspecives, BUT that spiritual perspective is also quite literal in a physical and soulish sense. I believe most of our problems with Prophecy is due to slipping back into our scarred thinking from the old man, rather than remaining in faith with Him in all things and allowing Him to guide us accordingly.

GB


199 posted on 09/01/2006 8:09:19 PM PDT by Cvengr
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