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What do you do with a future National Israel in the Bible?
Tribulation Forces ^ | Thomas Ice

Posted on 09/01/2006 5:32:18 AM PDT by xzins

What do you do with a future National Israel in the Bible?
by Thomas Ice


I suspect that most of you have been at a theological crossroad at least once in your Christian life. I have stood at several over the years. Let me tell you about one such instance, since it is one that many have faced down through church history. It involves the question of "What do you do with a future national Israel in the Bible?" The decision one makes about this question will largely determine your view of Bible prophecy, thus greatly impacting your view of the Bible itself and where history is headed.

A Personal Crossroad

Back in the early '80s I lived in Oklahoma and was in my first pastorate after getting out of Dallas Seminary in 1980. I had been attracted for about a decade to the writings of those known as Christian Reconstructionists. Most reconstructionists are preterist postmillennial1 in their view of Bible prophecy. Up to this point in my life I considered myself a reconstructionist who was not postmillennial, but dispensational premillennial. Through a series of events, I came to a point in my thinking where I believed that I had to consider whether postmillennialism was biblical. I recall having come to the point in my mind where I actually wanted to switch to postmillennialism and had thought about what that would mean for me in the ministry. I remember thinking that I was willing to make whatever changes would be necessary if I concluded that the Bible taught postmillennialism.

I went on a trip to Tyler, Texas (at the time a reconstructionist stronghold) and visited with Gary North and his pastor Ray Sutton. I spent most of my time talking with Ray Sutton, a Dallas graduate who had made the journey from dispensationalism to postmillennialism. As I got in my car to drive the 100 miles to Dallas where I would stay that night, I expected to make the shift to postmillennialism. In fact, I spent the night in the home of my current co-author, Tim Demy, who told me later that he said to his wife after talking with me, "Well Lynn, looks like we've lost Tommy to postmillennialism."

The next morning as I drove from Dallas to Oklahoma, my mind was active with a debate between the two positions. About two-thirds of the way home, I concluded that to make the shift to postmillennialism I would have to spiritualize many of the passages referring to a future for national Israel and replace them with the church. At that moment of realization, which has been strengthened since through many hours of in-depth Bible study, I lost any attraction to postmillennialism.

Since that time, more than fifteen years ago, further Bible study has continued to strengthen my belief that God has a future plan for national Israel. It was the Bible's clear teaching about a future for national Israel that kept me a dispensationalist. What the Bible teaches about national Israel's future has been a central issue impacting the action of Christians on many important issues. It is hard to think of a more important issue that has exerted a greater practical impact upon Christendom than the Church's treatment of unbelieving Jews during her 2,000 year history. As we will see, treatment of the Jews by Christendom usually revolves around one's understanding of Israel's future national role in God's plan.

Chrisendom's Anti-Semitism

Over the years I have been asked many times, "How can a genuine, born-again Christian be anti-Semitic?" Most American evangelical Christians today have a high view of Jews and the modern state of Israel and do not realize that this is a more recent development because of the positive influence of the dispensational view that national Israel has a future in the plan of God. Actually, for the last 2,000 years, Chrisendom has been responsible for much of the world's anti-Semitism. What has been the reason within Chrisendom that would allow anti-Semitism to develop and prosper? Replacement theology has been recognized at the culprit.

What is replacement theology? Replacement theology is the view that the Church has permanently replaced Israel as the instrument through which God works and that national Israel does not have a future in the plan of God. Some replacement theologians may believe that individual Jews will be converted and enter into the church (something that we all believe), but they do not believe that God will literally fulfill the dozens of Old Testament promises to a converted national Israel in the future. For example, reconstructionist David Chilton says that "ethnic Israel was excommunicated for its apostasy and will never again be God's Kingdom."2 Chilton says again, "the Bible does not tell of any future plan for Israel as a special nation."3 Reconstructionist patriarch, R. J. Rushdoony uses the strongest language when he declares,

The fall of Jerusalem, and the public rejection of physical Israel as the chosen people of God, meant also the deliverance of the true people of God, the church of Christ, the elect, out of the bondage to Israel and Jerusalem, . . .4

A further heresy clouds premillennial interpretations of Scripture--their exaltation of racism into a divine principle. Every attempt to bring the Jew back into prophecy as a Jew is to give race and works (for racial descent is a human work) a priority over grace and Christ's work and is nothing more or less than paganism. . . . There can be no compromise with this vicious heresy.5

The Road to Holocaust

Replacement theology and its view that Israel is finished in history nationally has been responsible for producing theological anti-Semitism in the church. History records that such a theology, when combined with the right social and political climate, has produced and allowed anti-Semitism to flourish. This was a point made by Hal Lindsey in The Road to Holocaust, to which reconstructionists cried foul. A book was written to rebut Lindsey by Jewish reconstructionist Steve Schlissel. Strangely, Schlissel's book (Hal Lindsey & The Restoration of the Jews) ended up supporting Lindsey's thesis that replacement theology produced anti-Semitism in the past and could in the future. Schlissel seems to share Lindsey's basic view on the rise and development of anti-Semitism within the history of the church. After giving his readers an overview of the history of anti-Semitism through Origen, Augustine, Chrysostom, Ambrose, and Jerome, Schlissel then quotes approvingly Raul Hilberg's famous quote included in Lindsey's Holocaust.

Viewing the plight of the Jews in Christian lands from the fourth century to the recent holocaust, one Jew observed, "First we were told 'You're not good enough to live among us as Jews.' Then we were told, 'You're not good enough to live among us.' Finally we were told, 'You're not good enough to live.'"6

Schlissel then comments approvingly upon Hilberg's statement,

This devastatingly accurate historical analysis was the fruit of an error, a building of prejudice and hate erected upon a false theological foundation. The blindness of the church regarding the place of the Jew in redemptive history is, I believe, directly responsible for the wicked sins and attitudes described above. What the church believes about the Jews has always made a difference. But the church has not always believed a lie.7

The truth, noted by Schlissel, is what his other reconstructionist brethren deny. What Schlissel has called a lie is the replacement theology that his preterist reconstructionist brethren advocate. Their form of replacement theology is the problem. Schlissel goes on to show that the Reformed church of Europe, after the Reformation, widely adopted the belief that God's future plan for Israel includes a national restoration of Israel. Many even taught that Israel would one day rebuild her Temple. For his Reformed brethren to arrive at such conclusions meant that they were interpreting the Old Testament promises to Israel literally, at least some of them. This shift from replacement theology to a national future for Israel resulted in a decline in persecution of the Jews in many Reformed communities and increased efforts in Jewish evangelism. Schlissel notes:

the change in the fortune of the Jews in Western civilization can be traced, not to humanism, but to the Reformed faith. The rediscovery of Scripture brought a rekindling of the Biblical conviction that God had not, in fact, fully nor finally rejected His people.8

Yet Schlissel is concerned that his Reformed brethren are abandoning this future national hope for Israel as they currently reassert a strong view of replacement theology.

Whatever views were maintained as to Israel's political restoration, their spiritual future was simply a given in Reformed circles. Ironically, this sure and certain hope is not a truth kept burning brightly in many Christian Reformed Churches today, . . . In fact, their future conversion aside, the Jews' very existence is rarely referred to today, and even then it is not with much grace or balance.9

This extract establishes that the "spiritualized" notion of "Israel" in Rom 11:25, 26, was known to and rejected by the body of Dutch expositors. . . .

Since the turn of the century, most modern Dutch Reformed, following Kuyper and Bavinck, reject this historic position.10

Reconstructionist Schlissel seems to think that part of the reason why many of his Reformed brethren are returning to replacement theology is due to their reaction to the strong emphasis of a future for Israel as a nation found within dispensational premillennialism. Yet, dispensational premillennialism developed within the Reformed tradition as many began to consistently take all the Old Testament promises that were yet fulfilled for Israel as still valid for a future Jewish nation. Schlissel complains:

just a century ago all classes of Reformed interpreters held to the certainty of the future conversion of Israel as a nation. How they have come, to a frightening extent, to depart from their historic positions regarding the certainty of Israel's future conversion is not our subject here. . . . the hope of the future conversion of the Jews became closely linked, at the turn of the century and beyond, with Premillennial Dispensationalism, an eschatological heresy. This, necessarily, one might say, soon became bound up and confused with Zionism. Christians waxed loud about the return of the Jews to Israel being a portent that the Second Coming is high. It thus seemed impossible, for many, to distinguish between the spiritual hope of Israel and their political "hope." Many Reformed, therefore, abandoned both.11

Historical Development

As it should be, the nature of Israel's future became the watershed issue in biblical interpretation which caused a polarization of positions that we find today. As Schlissel noted, "all classes of Reformed interpreters held to the certainty of the future conversion of Israel as a nation." Today most Reformed interpreters do not hold such a view. Why? Early in the systemization of any theological position the issues are undeveloped and less clear than later when the consistency of various positions are worked out. Thus it is natural for the mature understanding of any theological issue to lead to polarization of viewpoints as a result of interaction and debate between positions. The earlier Reformed position to which Schlissel refers included a blend of some Old Testament passages that were taken literally (i.e., those teaching a future conversion of Israel as a nation) and some that were not (i.e., details of Israel's place of dominance during a future period of history). On the one hand, as time passed, those who stressed a literal understanding of Israel from the Old Testament became much more consistent in applying such an approach to all passages relating to Israel's destiny. On the other hand, those who thought literalism was taken too far retreated from whatever degree of literalness they did have and argued that the church fulfills Israel's promises, thus there was no need for a national Israel in the future. Further, non-literal interpretation was viewed as the tool with which liberals denied the essentials of the faith. Thus, by World War II dispensationalism had come to virtually dominate evangelicals who saw literal interpretation of the Bible as a primary support for orthodoxy.

After World War II many of the battles between fundamentalism and liberalism began to wane. Such an environment allowed for less stigma attached to non literal interpretation within conservative circles. Thus, by the '70s, not having learned the lessons of history, we began to see the revival of many prophetic views that were returning to blends of literal and spiritual interpretation. As conservative postmillennialism has risen from near extinction in recent years, it did not return to the mixed hermeneutics of 100 years ago, which Schlissel longs for, but instead, it has been wedded with preterism in hopes that it can combat the logic of dispensational futurism. Schlissel's Reformed brethren do not appear to be concerned that, in preterism, they have revived a brand of eschatology which includes one of the most hard-core forms of replacement theology. And they do not appear convinced or concerned that replacement theology has a history of producing theological anti-Semitism when mixed with the right social and political conditions. In fact, Schlissel himself preached a sermon a few years ago in which he identified James Jordan, a Reformed preterist, as advancing an anti-Semitic view of Bible prophecy.12

Conclusion

What one believes about the future of Israel is of utmost importance to one's understanding of the Bible. I believe, without a shadow of doubt, that Old Testament promises made to national Israel will literally be fulfilled in the future. This means the Bible teaches that God will return the Jews to their land before the tribulation begins (Isa. 11:11-12:6; Ezek. 20:33-44; 22:17-22; Zeph. 2:1-3). This has been accomplished and the stage is set as a result of the current existence of the modern state of Israel. The Bible also indicates that before Israel enters into her time of national blessing she must first pass through the fire of the tribulation (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:5-9; Dan. 12:1; Zeph. 1:14-18). Even though the horrors of the Holocaust under Hitler were of an unimaginable magnitude, the Bible teaches that a time of even greater trial awaits Israel during the tribulation. Anti-Semitism will reach new heights, this time global in scope, in which two-thirds of world Jewry will be killed (Zech. 13:7-9; Rev. 12). Through this time God will protect His remnant so that before His second advent "all Israel will be saved" (Rom. 11:36). In fact, the second coming will include the purpose of God's physical rescue of Israel from world persecution during Armageddon (Dan. 12:1; Zech. 12-14; Matt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).

If national Israel is a historical "has been," then all of this is obviously wrong. However, the Bible says she has a future and world events will revolve around that tiny nation at the center of the earth. The world's focus already is upon Israel. God has preserved His people for a reason and it is not all bad. In spite of the fact that history is progressing along the lines of God's ordained pattern for Israel, we see the revival of replacement theology within conservative circles that will no doubt be used in the future to fuel the fires of anti-Semitism, as it has in the past. Your view of the future of national Israel is not just an academic exercise. I beg everyone influenced by this article to cast your allegiance with the literal Word of God lest we be found fighting against God and His Sovereign plan. W

Endnotes

1 For a definition of terms and labels used in this article consult the Glossary in Thomas Ice & Timothy Demy, editors, When the Trumpet Sounds: Today's Foremost Authorities Speak Out on End-Time Controversies (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1995), pp. 473-4.

2 David Chilton, Paradise Restored (Tyler, TX: Reconstruction Press, 1985), p. 224. 3 Ibid.

4 Rousas John Rushdoony, Thy Kingdom Come: Studies in Daniel and Revelation (Fairfax, VA: Thoburn Press, 1970), p. 82.

5 Ibid., p. 134.

6 Steve Schlissel & David Brown, Hal Lindsey & The Restoration of the Jews (Edmonton, Canada: Still Waters Revival Books, 1990), p. 47. For a survey of the history of anti-Semitism in the Church see David Rausch, Building Bridges: Understanding Jews and Judaism (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988), pp. 87-171. 7Ibid., pp. 47-48. 8Ibid., p. 59. 9Ibid., p. 42. 10Ibid., pp. 49-50. 11Ibid., pp. 39-40.

12 Steve Schlissel, The Jews/Jordan & Jerusalem, an audio tape obtained from Still Waters Revival Books, 4710 - 37A Ave., Edmonton, AB T6L 3T5, CANADA.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; church; dispensationalism; eschatology; israel; postmillennialism; premillennialism; preterism; replacement
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To: topcat54

Thus saith the Lord, "Phooey." No, don't think so, lol


661 posted on 09/06/2006 6:28:12 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (the vine brought forth little minnows and everything went swimmingly)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
"phooey"? I don't think God would ever say "phooey."

Possible. I think it's Yiddish. :-)

662 posted on 09/06/2006 6:47:18 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
By gum, you're right! You are smart:

Phooey! fooey, pfui - Designates disbelief, distaste, contempt

663 posted on 09/06/2006 6:56:21 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (the vine brought forth little minnows and everything went swimmingly)
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To: topcat54

Well, this prophecy by Kim is odd at best. I have heard him do these things on TV and I never can understand what he is saying. How can we judge if he is correct when he is so vague? For me personally, I have no faith in his prophecies.


664 posted on 09/06/2006 7:12:15 PM PDT by ladyinred (Leftists, the enemy within.)
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To: ladyinred

Seems like statdard issue with the "signs and wonders" crowd. I can't makes heads or tails of anything on that site. It's all a lot of gibberish.


665 posted on 09/06/2006 7:30:09 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
  It is not becoming for you to be still when the Spirit of God says, "I will do what was impossible when you walked into this building. It is obnoxious to Me, therefore, open your hands and open your hearts, and receive and say, 'YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!'"   It's too late, God has taken over!!    

Now what is not to understand about this?:-)

I must say they have the DONATE buttons where one can't help but find them and understand! :-)

I mean no offense to those who do believe this Kim guy is for real, but I have never been able to grasp his meanings.

666 posted on 09/06/2006 7:43:48 PM PDT by ladyinred (Leftists, the enemy within.)
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To: TopCat

Oh my, I just noticed I made those comments on post #666! Yikes! :-)


667 posted on 09/06/2006 7:47:43 PM PDT by ladyinred (Leftists, the enemy within.)
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To: ladyinred

668 posted on 09/06/2006 8:52:11 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: xzins
I do not see how anyone claiming to be dispensational can say that the church will go through 'Jacob's trouble'.

The essence of Dispensationalism is recognizing the difference between the church and Israel.

669 posted on 09/06/2006 11:20:51 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration; xzins
The essence of Dispensationalism is recognizing the difference between the church and Israel.

Thus my objection to the faulty poll listed in #481. Various assorted rapturists were listed as dispensationalists, including post-tribbers.

670 posted on 09/07/2006 3:51:58 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
If this is a universal tribulation, why does Jesus only give warning to those living in Judea and why speak of the Jewish sabbath? Is anyone in Iowa or Colombia going to care if it is the Jewish sabbath or not? (Even in today's Israel they manage to carry on a war on the sabbath.) Are there any deserts in, say, Alaska or Vietnam where folks will desire to go searching for the Christ?

It is a universal tribulation.

Matthew is speaking directly to the Jews, being a Gospel to the Jews.

In Luke, the Gospel to the Gentiles, we find the universal nature of the Tribulation.

And there shall be signs in the sun and in the moon, and in the stars, and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and waves roaring. Men's hearts shall failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of earth heaven shall be shaken. (Lk.21:25-26)

671 posted on 09/07/2006 4:05:42 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: topcat54
Dispensational Premillennialism: (a.k.a. Dispensationalism) The Tribulation precedes the second coming of Christ, and the subsequent establishment of the millennial kingdom -- a thousand-year golden age on Earth under the authority of Christ. Afterwards, in a brief, final battle, Satan is permanently conquered. The Final Judgment follows the millennium.

You are correct.

You cannot call yourself a 'dispensationalist' if you think the church is going to go through the Tribulation, which is for the judgement of Israel.

Leaving out the rapture or placing it at the end of it, means that the church is going through the Tribulation.

Nothing above is said about the rapture or the Jewish rule in the Millennium.(Davidic Covenant)

672 posted on 09/07/2006 4:22:59 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration

They arrive at that conclusion biblically, and it is based, if I remember correctly, on the sequence of events and persons present at the time of Jesus' return. I had a good friend, a Conservative Baptist, who was solidly post-trib, and very skilled in explaining it biblically.

My concern with it is based more on who inhabits the land after the return of Christ, than it is on whether or not Christians suffer persecution in the tribulation. One can make a number of points about Christians and tribulation and about Christians being protected but present.


673 posted on 09/07/2006 4:58:36 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
They arrive at that conclusion biblically, and it is based, if I remember correctly, on the sequence of events and persons present at the time of Jesus' return. I had a good friend, a Conservative Baptist, who was solidly post-trib, and very skilled in explaining it biblically.

And he considered himself a Dispensationalist?

My concern with it is based more on who inhabits the land after the return of Christ, than it is on whether or not Christians suffer persecution in the tribulation. One can make a number of points about Christians and tribulation and about Christians being protected but present.

The issue is crucial since the Church is the Bride of Christ, not Israel, for whom the Tribulation is meant.

Christians will be at the Judgement seat of Christ and then the wedding of the Lamb (2Cor.5:10, Rev.19:7-9), not being persecuted.

It is the saved Jews and Gentiles, who 'endure to the end' who await Christ's return to enter into the Millennium.

674 posted on 09/07/2006 5:06:32 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration

He absolutely considered himself dispensational. I'll have to see if I can find the biblical logic on the web. It's been since 1995 that we've talked. He was unususal for a Conservative Baptist, and it caused him some distress with his denomination, because the are pre-trib rapturists, pretty much from top to bottom.


675 posted on 09/07/2006 5:17:19 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: fortheDeclaration; xzins; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; TomSmedley
You cannot call yourself a 'dispensationalist' if you think the church is going to go through the Tribulation, which is for the judgement of Israel.

I'm glad you recognize that, in the futurist dispensational scheme, the tribulation is for the "judgment of Israel."

Perhaps you can answer the question; for what is Israel being judged?

Walvoord wrote:

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried" (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah's prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah.
Some of the dispensationalist thinkers here have been reluctant to answer that question.
676 posted on 09/07/2006 6:27:31 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: fortheDeclaration; xzins
And he considered himself a Dispensationalist?
The pre-tribulational rapture is the key to dispensational eschatology. The pre-tribulational rapture separates dispensationalism from other forms of premillennialism as well as amillennialism and postmillennialism. This is what makes it a "fourth view" of eschatology.[10] According to dispensationalism, prior to the rapture, Israel has no prophetic significance. This is carried to a consistent extreme by some dispensationalists who claim that Jews once again must be ejected from their homeland and brought back as believing Israelites. Dr. Paige Patterson stated this position on a Dallas, Texas, radio program (KCBI) on May 15, 1991. He said:
The present state of Israel is not the final form. The present state of Israel will be lost, eventually, and Israel will be run out of the land again, only to return when they accept the Messiah as Savior.
It is only in this way, so the theory goes, that the prophecies concerning Israel's restoration can literally be fulfilled in prophetic time, that is, after the rapture of the church. Israel's expulsion occurs prior to the rapture with the church looking on. Would Christians be fighting against God if they helped the Jews hold on to their land? Would they be anti-semitic if they allowed prophecy to unfold and saw millions of Jews persecuted by their enemies?

[10] Robert G. Clouse, ed., The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1977).

The Bloody Future of Israel In Dispensational Eschatology


677 posted on 09/07/2006 6:38:32 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; fortheDeclaration; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Buggman; Lord_Calvinus; TomSmedley
Some of the dispensationalist thinkers here have been reluctant to answer that question.

a, b, c, d, or e?

678 posted on 09/07/2006 6:40:20 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: P-Marlowe; topcat54

PM, why is it that some won't answer a simple question about whether the waters in Egypt turned to blood?

The scripture says it turned to blood.

I wonder if they think the staff turned into a snake?

Here's a simple question: Did the staff turn into a snake?

Yes

No


679 posted on 09/07/2006 6:49:19 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins

Yes.


680 posted on 09/07/2006 6:54:18 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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