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To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; AZhardliner; ...
GRPL Apologetics Ping


2 posted on 08/20/2006 5:47:22 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Jesus came to raise the dead. He did not come to teach the teachable." Robert Farrar Capon)
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To: Gamecock
I would like to think beloved pets would be in Heaven, but so far most arguments I've seen in favor are sheer sentimentalism at best. This essay is an exception, but it falls well short of proof. Ecclesiastes 3:21 seems to go the other way: "Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?"

The most troubling statement I've seen -- and I've seen it more than once -- goes like this: "If Fido isn't in Heaven, then I don't want to go there."

Of course, if the most appealing thing about Heaven is the prospect of meeting an animal (or, for that matter, any other mere human being) there, I'm afraid it's a safe bet that the speaker needn't worry about being there.

Dan
Biblical Christianity BLOG
Pyromaniacs

6 posted on 08/20/2006 6:01:53 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Gamecock
One of those things we don't really need to know.

In one of the Diskworld books Terry Pratchett ran the numbers (Heaven as the big cube described in Revelation) and (after allowing for heavenly hosts, essential services and a vast crowd of humanity) concluded that there was room for pets.

9 posted on 08/20/2006 6:09:47 AM PDT by Lee N. Field
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To: Gamecock

Butch, you attacked everyone that came in the door. I still carry the scars. Had you not died I would have killed you myself. God please keep Butch away from heaven, he was the dog from Hell.


11 posted on 08/20/2006 7:23:41 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (If Bin Laden kidnapped Jimmy Carter, would you care?)
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To: Gamecock

All I know is that if there are animals in heaven, my wife will be in charge of the squirrels.


24 posted on 08/20/2006 2:42:57 PM PDT by irishtenor (We survived Clinton in the 80s... we can survive her even when her husband is gone.)
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To: Gamecock
No less than that great reformed* saint C. S. Lewis speculated (in his light-hearted scholarly but not arrogant way) that yes animals would be in heaven, at least the ones loved by God's children: i.e. pets. This is in the book The Problem of Pain, a terrific book b.t.w., in a chapter titled "Animal Pain."

Since the bible is silent on this, Lewis' speculations, a lot like Roman Catholic arguments from natural law, are interesting--and may well shed light on the issue. Lewis reasons that it is in the nature of love to love what is loved by your beloved. If you really love a woman who likes the color red for example, you too will soon become fond of red also--even if you never were before--for it reminds you of your beloved. In the same way if we love a creature especially--appreciating what the Creator put in that creature, than our Father the Creator will also have a special love for that particular creature. This means that a bear in the middle of the woods who dies a brutal death in the wilderness may well not have any eternal existance, but a beloved pet of a believer will...

Interesting speculation--if taken that way (as Lewis intended)--in any event.

This is the first genuine reformed reflection I've seen on that, and I'm glad it comes from the OPC. I agree too that no animal can commit a sin, since they never had any choice in the matter. As far as R.C. Sproul's speculation that killing a killer animal proves some sort of guilt--that's a silly argument. It's simply a practical matter that an animal that has killed is very much at risk of killing again--hence must be eliminated.

*That's a joke guys, Lewis--at least on predestination--was anything but reformed--on other issues though, coming from the Anglican church, I think he did show reformed instincts.

34 posted on 08/20/2006 7:43:10 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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