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The Lord's Prayer
Catholic Exchange ^ | August 18, 2006 | Fr. William Saunders

Posted on 08/18/2006 10:52:01 AM PDT by NYer

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To: trisham
In Aramaic:

Avvon d-bish-maiya, nith-qaddash shim-mukh. 
Tih-teh mal-chootukh. Nih-weh çiw-yanukh:
ei-chana d'bish-maiya: ap b'ar-ah.
Haw lan lakh-ma d'soonqa-nan yoo-mana.
O'shwooq lan kho-bein:
ei-chana d'ap kh'nan shwiq-qan l'khaya-ween.
Oo'la te-ellan l'niss-yoona:
il-la paç-çan min beesha.
Mid-til de-di-lukh hai mal-choota
oo khai-la oo tush-bookh-ta
l'alam al-mein. Aa-meen.

21 posted on 08/18/2006 1:27:46 PM PDT by Carolina
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To: Carolina

Well, this is interesting:

Aramaic is a Semitic language with a 3,000-year history. It has been the language of administration of empires and the language of divine worship. It is the original language of large sections of the biblical books of Daniel and Ezra, and is the main language of the Talmud. Aramaic is believed to have been the native language of Jesus. Modern Aramaic is spoken today as a first language by numerous, scattered communities, most significantly by Assyrians. The language is considered to be endangered.

Aramaic belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language family. Within that diverse family, it belongs to the Semitic subfamily. Aramaic is a part of the Northwest Semitic group of languages, which also includes the Canaanite languages (such as Hebrew).

From Wikipedia.


22 posted on 08/18/2006 1:32:12 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

Interesting. Jesus the Jew taught a Jewish prayer.


23 posted on 08/18/2006 1:52:11 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Carolina; trisham
In Aramaic:


The Aramaic Prayer To Our Father
"Lord's Prayer"

This wording and pronunciation is the closest that
we know to the form which Jesus spoke.

aboon dabashmaya
Our Father in heaven,

nethkadash shamak
Holy is Thy name.

tetha malkoothak
Your Kingdom is coming,

newe tzevyanak
Your will is being done

aykan dabashmaya
on earth as it is in heaven.

af bara hav lan lakma dsoonkanan
Give us bread for our needs day by day.

yamana washbook lan
Forgive us our offenses

kavine aykana daf
as we have forgiven our offenders.

hanan shabookan lhayavine oolow talahn lanesyana
Do not let us enter into temptation.

ela fatsan men beesha
Deliver us from error.

From: Fr. Dale (Dale A. Johnson) barhanna2001@yahoo.com
Formerly in service in Lebanon and Syria
Now in service in the Dominican Republic .
See Dominican Outreach
Fr. Dale's Writings and Books

24 posted on 08/18/2006 2:05:24 PM PDT by NYer
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To: trisham; Carolina; AxelPaulsenJr; onedoug
Aramaic is believed to have been the native language of Jesus. Modern Aramaic is spoken today as a first language by numerous, scattered communities, most significantly by Assyrians. The language is considered to be endangered.

Within the Catholic Church, Syriac/Aramaic is retained as a liturgical language by several Churches - the Maronite, Chaldean and Syro-Malankara for sure and possibly others as well.

The Words of Institution in the Maronite Church are chanted by the priest, in Aramaic. Each time I hear them, it is like being transported back through time, to the Upper Room.

25 posted on 08/18/2006 2:13:35 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

I recognized three words: aboun (Abba), mana, and ameyn. :) Daddy, food, and "so be it".


26 posted on 08/18/2006 2:13:54 PM PDT by Carolina
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To: annalex

Amen!


27 posted on 08/18/2006 2:36:05 PM PDT by Jaded (does it really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Carolina; sandyeggo; GipperGal; Patrick_k
I recognized three words: aboun (Abba), mana, and ameyn. :) Daddy, food, and "so be it".

That's great! Remember, this is a transliteration of the original text.

Here's an amusing story for your efforts. The Maronites call their pastor "Abouna". Recently, our pastor was doing some work at the 150 y/o Methodist Episcopal Church we purchased and which is now being renovated into a Catholic Church. A redneck 'neighbor' stopped by to complain to him about the property survey. He could see Father was a Catholic priest by the clericals he always wears. So, he began by asking Father what his name was. Here is the conversation that ensued:

Neighbor: "What's your name?"

Father: "Father Kairouz."

Neighbor: "I'm not a religious man; what's your name?"

Father: "Father Kairouz."

Neighbor: "Look, I don't care about religion; what's your name?"

Father: "My name is Father Kairouz. If you can't address me by my name, then there is no discussion regarding property lines". (and with that he walked away).

On hearing about this exchange, I suggested that the next time it surfaces, he should simply respond with the truth: "My name is Abouna". The neighbor will think he has an "in" and Father will be respected with his proper title. Lol!

28 posted on 08/18/2006 3:01:37 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

LOLOL!


29 posted on 08/18/2006 3:11:05 PM PDT by Carolina
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To: Carolina
Truly sad that speaking the Lord's Prayer and meeting the Lord is a waste of time for you. I've been Masses celebrated in other languages, and even if I didn't understand the language, it was still a joy because I was meeting the Lord. I pity you in your narrowness.

You were meeting the Lord??? Well, I met the Lord when I got saved and He hasn't left yet...And I don't expect Him to...

I'm sorry you have to go somewhere to meet the Lord...

30 posted on 08/18/2006 3:46:25 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

Physically?


31 posted on 08/18/2006 3:55:26 PM PDT by mckenzie7 (Parenthood is a gift)
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To: Iscool
You were meeting the Lord???

Yes, physically meeting him in the Sacrament of His Body and Blood.

I'm sorry you have to go somewhere to meet the Lord...

No, you are the impoverished one who cannot accept an Incarnate Lord Who feeds us of His own Flesh and Blood. He is not just merely "in my heart" but is incorporated into my very flesh everyday when I consume Him. He is not just a spiritual reality but a Real and Physical Reality. That is part of the mystery of Incarnation. Someday I pray you will understand what Christ said about eating his Body and Blood. It has been the belief of the Church from her ancient roots.

32 posted on 08/18/2006 4:03:55 PM PDT by Carolina
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Iscool
I believe in what Christ said: Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Yes, His flesh is food and His Blood is drink. Jesus said it. So yes, Jesus physically and spiritually abides in me.

If you cannot believe that bread can be changed into His Body or wine into His Blood, how can you believe that you will be raised on the last day? With God nothing is impossible.

34 posted on 08/18/2006 5:59:20 PM PDT by Carolina
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To: Iscool
If it's really Jesus when you stuff him into your mouth, is it still Jesus a couple days later???

Do you have to work at being offensive or does it just come naturally? Your question could have been asked in a way that does not rile those up who believe in the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist. That you didn't makes me question your sincerity as a Christian.

35 posted on 08/18/2006 6:23:00 PM PDT by Titanites
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: trisham; NYer; FJ290; Coleus; Campion; annalex; baa39; Pyro7480
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us

This phrase in the Lord's Prayer clearly tells us that we will be forgiven the same as we forgive others. So, if we don't forgive others, then we aren't forgiven. I've always wondered how this conforms to the premise "once saved, always saved". If you have been saved once and forever, it seems that this phrase in the prayer would be meaningless.

37 posted on 08/18/2006 6:44:41 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Iscool
I asked that question as politely as I knew how

So it comes naturally.

went to a Catholic service...I ate the cookie...I didn't see Jesus...That's because he's not there

You need to know that you are not allowed to participate in taking Communion in the Orthodox and 22 Catholic churches. Also, you should be aware of the consequences if you do:

    Cor 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
It's the same as when Jesus says, "I am the door"...Is Jesus a door???

No, it is not the same. When Jesus sais "I am the door", he did not have a door in his hands and refer to it specifically, as he did to the bread and wine at the Last Supper. Additional verses regarding the Eucharist, e.g. Chronicles 11:27 for one, confirm that Jesus was not speaking figuratively. 2000 years of teaching and understanding of Scripture tells us the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ. That is why Eastern Orthodox, the 22 Catholic Churches, Anglicans, and Lutherns believe in the true, physical presence. I think I'll stick with the 2000 years of Christian teaching and understanding led by the Holy Spirit than rely on the scriptual interpretation of a Johnny-come-lately who thinks his views trump everyone else's.

Does a priest wave a magic wand

Orthdox, Catholics, Anglicans, and Lutherans don't practice magic and don't use wands.

Now, instead of trying to hijack another thread, why don't you get back on topic.

38 posted on 08/18/2006 7:03:03 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: annalex
Aside from a few ancillaries, nearly every word in the prayer has found itself into English.

Thank you, for listing the English cognates. Chanting the Lord's Prayer in Latin is wonderful. When I went to a General Audience at St. Peter's Square with tens of thousands of us, it was thrilling to hear us all gathered from all corners of the earth chanting it together.

39 posted on 08/18/2006 7:11:45 PM PDT by Carolina
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To: Carolina; Iscool; Titanites

Transubstantiation is a MYSTERY. Just because one cannot logically explain the mysteries of God does not mean they are not Real.

God did not come down to publish a Book and then leave us floundering around for centuries. It's amazing how some Christians can quote chapter and verse, yet refuse to accept the explicit teachings of Christ about the Eucharist. Indeed, those listenng at the time declared "Who can believe him? This is too hard!" and left. It is one of the hardest, even though one of the clearest, mandates of Christ, because it is not simple to grasp.

This is why Christ established a living Church (not just a Bible), guided by the Holy Spirit and incapable of dogmatic error. So not only do we have the teachings of Christ himself, both in words (John, Chap.6) and actions (Last Supper), we have them reaffirmed by the Council of Trent and COUNTLESS Eucharistic miracles and revelations.


40 posted on 08/18/2006 7:26:06 PM PDT by baa39 (Quid hoc ad aeternitatem?)
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