Posted on 08/18/2006 10:52:01 AM PDT by NYer
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
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Amen!
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. Amen.
Beautiful.
According to a colleague of mine, who is the ancient Greek and Latin teacher at a Catholic high school, the "original" Greek version of the Our Father and the Latin version are ambigious in the ending. "Sed libera nos a malo" could mean "deliver us from evil" or "deliver us from the Evil One."
Explanation?
How do you explain, Matthew 6 V:13?
Leaving aside sophisticated theology for a moment, quite simply, Catholics pray as Christ instructed. Just look in the Bible.
During the Mass:
Priest says: "Let us pray in the words our Saviour taught us." (Or similar phrasing).
Then priest and people TOGETHER say the "Our Father" (just as Jesus taught the disciples, straight from scripture).
Then priest says: "Deliver us Lord from every evil and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour." (approximately)
Then the congregation (only) says "For Thine is the kingdom, etc...." It is a separate prayer.
Here's a somewhat unrelated but true story:
My mother went to grade school in Chicago in the 40's. Apparently in those days, class began not only with the Pledge of Allegiance, but the Our Father as well. Yes, this was a public school.
Before her first day, my Grandmother, a devout Catholic, told my Mom, "Now they are going to say the Our Father at the beginning of school, BUT, they are saying the Protestant version! So after you say "deliver us from evil," you stop! Stay silent for the rest of it!"
So God was then allowed in the classroom, but only the socially dominant WASP version.
In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.
The meaning of the "temptation" part here is twofold: not to put us to a test we have no strength to pass, and to grant us strength to overcome the temptation we do face.
The lacking a definite article "evil" is unfortunate and comes from Latin which lacks articles altogether. The Greek has a definite article, "liberate us from the evil". The preferred translation is "from the Evil one", that is from Satan. Translations to Slav languages, done directly from Greek render it that way: "liberate us from The Crooked One". The sequel said by the priest in the Latin tradition provides the necessary clarification in a different way: "Deliver us, oh Lord, from every evil". The point is that it is not some abstract evil that we want liberty from, but rather very concrete and numerous attacks of the Satan.
I didn't care for it in Latin...Couldn't read a thing...So, it was meaningless...
Knowing your severe anti-Catholicism displayed on this forum, I'm not surprised. You do know that English is substantially based on Latin, right?
**************
Let me guess..you're not Catholic.
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Thanks for sharing.
If it were in Greek, it would be meaningless to me, unless of course, I knew it was the Lord's prayer, then I would do my meaningful translation.
For me, it is absolutely beautiful in Latin. Of course, I was brought up in the tradition and absolutely love it.
Aside from a few ancillaries, nearly every word in the prayer has found itself into English.
father
celestial
saint, sanctify
name
advent, vent, avenue
regal
fact
voluntary
terrestrial
panis, bread -- no corresponding borrowing that comes to mind
quotidian
hodie <- diem = day
dismiss
debt
unduce
tentative, tempt
liberation
malignance
What's that got to do with it??? I thinks it's a pretty good prayer in English...
So what's the fixation with Latin anyway??? I went to a Latin spoken service one time...Total waste of time, for me...
Truly sad that speaking the Lord's Prayer and meeting the Lord is a waste of time for you. I've been Masses celebrated in other languages, and even if I didn't understand the language, it was still a joy because I was meeting the Lord. I pity you in your narrowness.
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Agreed. I wish I had taken Latin, it's a very valuable tool for understanding English. I also prefer the Latin Mass.
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