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Why I Can No Longer Be A United Methodist
United Methodist Nexus ^ | August 2006 | Marge Engelman

Posted on 08/17/2006 6:31:09 AM PDT by hiho hiho

I am a retired university administrator and faculty member, a lifelong Methodist (now United Methodist), a clergy wife, a mother and a grandmother. At this age I had imagined that I would be happily treasuring traditional Christian views, following the well-worn path to the church, and participating in all the usual “keep-’em-busy-and-involved” church activities.

Here I am at 78 raising more questions about the Christian faith than ever before. I am offended by the continued use of sexist language and bored by the endless rehearsal of our ancient doctrines. I can no longer think like a first century Christian, the time when much of the Bible was written, or like a fourth century Christian, the time when the creeds were formed. Striving to find meaning in the creeds without translating almost every word is frustrating. The words stick in my throat when I try to sing the dated hymns depicting heaven as up and hell as down, God as Father, and Christian soldiers marching onward. I find it difficult to worship what my mind rejects.

Going to The United Methodist Church to worship does not meet my spiritual needs. For a while I went to coffee hour to see valued friends. Now and then I would attend the Sunday Forum seeking a new idea, but then I would play hooky and skip out before worship, hoping no one would miss me. Now I have “given up” and seek meaning in other ways and places.

An Interfaith Dialogue group meeting in a Catholic Retreat Center has increased my awareness that there are many spiritual paths. When I gather with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Bahai’s, Agnostics, and Christians to share spiritual thoughts and experiences, I am enriched.

The exclusivity of traditional Christianity, “ours is the only way,” saddens me now. Seldom in recent years did I hear reference to other faiths, maybe a nod now and then to ecumenicity. As I contemplate the world scene, traumatized with religious conflict, it seems there is good reason to be about the business of opening all the doors and windows to the fresh air of learning about, valuing and working with other faiths.

Again and again my hopes have been dashed related to openness and support for gays and lesbians. The United Methodist churches that I know best tiptoe around the gay, lesbian and transgendered issues. If a church does decide after much study and discussion that they want to be a welcoming congregation, they then seldom reach out in meaningful and caring ways to the gays and lesbians in their communities.

And now in addition to United Methodists denying ordination to self-avowed practicing homosexuals, the UM Judicial Council has said that gays and lesbians have no automatic right to church membership and upheld the power of local pastors to turn them away. That is deeply troubling to me.

I was an active trustee of one of United Methodist’s finest seminaries for 25 years. I am ashamed to say that the board of that Seminary has never been able to agree on a policy related to gays and lesbians. I have shed many tears of frustration and anger as some of us tried to bring about change.

When I was in undergraduate school and became president of a national sorority, I was stunned to realize that I was required to ask new pledges if they were of Negro, Oriental, or Jewish extraction. If they were, we could not pledge them. Shortly after graduating, I resigned from the sorority to protest that discrimination.

When trying to decide if I wanted to remain an active United Methodist, I recalled that disturbing sorority experience and asked myself if I wanted to be a member of a Church that discriminated against homosexuals.

Where are the voices of United Methodists in standing up against the Iraq war? Where are the Bishop Oxnams of our day? Yes, there are some brave souls, but in general there has been no United Methodist outcry against a preemptive, illegal war that has killed thousands and threatens the very fiber of our souls. Many clergy are concerned, but if they speak out they may offend some members, and what United Methodist church can afford to lose members in this day and age of declining membership?

I have changed from that ever-smiling, supportive clergy wife, who questioned little and swallowed a lot. Now I am reimagining my faith as I age. Of course, this new path has brought guilt and self-doubt and periods of deep searching. But there are joys as well. It is a joy to find spiritual strength in new places: within me as I meditate, in the community of the Interfaith Dialogue, listening as I walk in the mornings, meeting and learning from international students, writing a book and sensing a guiding presence as I write.

Maintaining some of my Christian perspectives, I am finding hope and nourishment in the Unitarian Universalist tradition. (Yes, you can be a Christian Unitarian.) In the words of one of their hymns, I am “Free from the bonds that bind the mind to narrow thought and lifeless creed.” I am happy to be a part of a community that places a very high priority on activism related to social justice issues. It is good to listen to the loving thoughts of a gay minister.

I do remain grateful for my Methodist heritage, but just as Jesus called in question the legalisms of Judaism, I want to move on to a faith that is inclusive, has no barriers or boundaries, and is relevant for the present day.


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: agnostic; buddhists; methodist; muslim; religiousleft; umc; unitarians; universalism; wiccans
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To: hiho hiho
"can no longer"

What took you so long?

41 posted on 08/17/2006 8:40:53 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: Sloth
What stirring bravery -- resigning from the sorority AFTER graduating.

I caught that, too. Shoulda checked the thread before posting my own comment on same.

42 posted on 08/17/2006 8:42:08 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: xzins
I hope it isn't odd for me to say that her liberal reaction and rejection of us is an indication that the classic, historic Christian perspective is slowly winning back our church.

I hope so. Whether or not that is the case will largely be determined by the institutional response to any increase in such cases. Do they stick to their guns, or do they compromise in order to keep membership up?

43 posted on 08/17/2006 9:20:20 AM PDT by Frumanchu (http://frumanchu.blogspot.com)
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To: xzins; Corin Stormhands; Buggman; blue-duncan; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; Gamecock; jude24
article: An Interfaith Dialogue group meeting in a Catholic Retreat Center has increased my awareness that there are many spiritual paths. When I gather with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Bahai’s, Agnostics, and Christians to share spiritual thoughts and experiences, I am enriched.

nuff said.....

This woman would find any Christian service, be it Catholic, Aminian, or Calvinist, offensive -

She's sounds more like a Unitarian than a Methodist

Though I will agree with her on one point on hymns - "O for a thousand tongues" annoys me to no end LOL

44 posted on 08/17/2006 9:24:23 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911; xzins; Buggman; blue-duncan; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; Gamecock; jude24
Though I will agree with her on one point on hymns - "O for a thousand tongues" annoys me to no end LOL

You got somethin' against pentecostals??? ;-)

(BTW, had a nice package on my front doorstep yesterday. Thanks)

45 posted on 08/17/2006 9:27:26 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Corin Stormhands
(BTW, had a nice package on my front doorstep yesterday. Thanks)

It wasn't on fire, by chance, was it?

46 posted on 08/17/2006 9:51:54 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 2:6)
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To: Alex Murphy; Revelation 911

Nope, but it was smokin'


47 posted on 08/17/2006 9:52:45 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD: Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: ichabod1
Baaahbl bulievin' church.

More like a Baal-believing church, I'd say.

48 posted on 08/17/2006 10:14:59 AM PDT by Rytwyng (Only a Million Minuteman March can stop the Bush Border Betrayal!)
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To: hiho hiho
Dear Old Hippie -

It strikes me that you, rather than God or the Bible, determines what is sinful for you and the rest of the world.

As you are the expert on sin and what is right, I wish you the best of luck with the whole Eternal Life thing.

I see a lot of Universalists around campus. They have those stickers on their hybrids, along with "Kerry for President" stickers. You should fit in nicely. Try to shout at people, "Jesus was a liberal, now what is your point" as much as possible. You no longer have to use the Bible any more, just make it up as you go along.

Finally, at your advanced age, you might want to give up taking credit for your Undergraduate accomplishments. Congrats on getting elected Sorority President. Please understand that the rest of the girls hated you.

49 posted on 08/17/2006 10:23:17 AM PDT by Volunteer (Just so you know, I am ashamed the Dixie Chicks make records in Nashville.)
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To: xzins

Sounds like she's been a life-long Methodist...Hard to believe since I'm familiar with some of the old time Methodist preachers...

I know 2 people however that attended a Methodist church for 8 years...They said they never once heard the plan of salvation...


50 posted on 08/17/2006 11:56:08 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: DungeonMaster

Okay, I officially love your screename and tagline.


51 posted on 08/17/2006 11:57:11 AM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Marylander

"Why does Marge think it important for us to know about some trite reasons why her church no longer serves her needs. Others change churches without so much as a peep."

The site at which this story appears is not part of the United Methodist Church, contrary to what the title may imply. The story fits nicely on an earlier story (Why The Gay Issue Is So Pivotal, May06) from the same group, that "... so many people feel deeply shamed that they are a part of a church that officially endorses discrimination against a significant segment of church life. They are appalled at such positions that lump being a self-avowed practicing homosexual in with crime..." -and- "...It will continue to plague the church, cause rifts, produce tension, drive people out of the church ..." Yes of course, here's an example!

This lay group lists this message on their parent site (zionsherald.org): "In March 2006, the publishers of Zion’s Herald changed the magazine’s name to The Progressive Christian..." It seems to me, there's an agenda going on here.


52 posted on 08/17/2006 11:57:26 AM PDT by Daffy
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To: Buggman
Okay, I officially love your screename and tagline.

Well what a nice thing to say! Thanks.

53 posted on 08/17/2006 12:12:40 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: jboot

The sad/scary thing is this easily could have been written by the wife of the former "pastor" at the UMC here in my town. In fact, I thought it was until I saw her age.


54 posted on 08/17/2006 12:40:50 PM PDT by Inclines to the Right
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To: Inclines to the Right

The individual who wrote this doesn't mention what her husband thinks about her "spiritual journey". If he's not at least alarmed and dismayed he is probabaly a fellow traveller with her.


55 posted on 08/17/2006 1:32:52 PM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
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To: hiho hiho

This is somewhat heartening for some of us in the UMC. It sure is tempting to say "then see ya! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" That isn't the proper Christian attitude, but it sure is tempting. Get thee behind me Satan.


56 posted on 08/17/2006 2:04:20 PM PDT by cdcdawg
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To: hiho hiho
A word review of this article reveals that of a total of 929 words, "I" was used 38 times, "me" was used 2 times, and "myself" was used once.

- KJV John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

57 posted on 08/17/2006 2:10:55 PM PDT by Faraday
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To: Iscool
never once heard the plan of salvation...

That is entirely possible.

Salvation for many is defined as "attending church."

58 posted on 08/17/2006 2:35:12 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: kittymyrib
LOL. The U.M.C. is the one that irs commercials showing some hippie shouting "when you celebrate diversity, you celebrate God!"

And this church was too liberal and dogmatic? It's always nice when people quit before they get fired.

59 posted on 08/17/2006 2:42:12 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte ("Thanks, Tom DeLay, for practically giving me your seat"-Nick Lampson)
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To: jboot

"The individual who wrote this doesn't mention what her husband thinks about her "spiritual journey". If he's not at least alarmed and dismayed he is probabaly a fellow traveller with her."


That certainly was the case of this woman's husband! They were pretty much of the same like mind.


60 posted on 08/17/2006 3:48:41 PM PDT by Inclines to the Right
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