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Hindu “Mass” Sparks Violent Altercation in Toronto Churchyard
Catholic Family News ^ | Cornelia R. Ferreira

Posted on 08/16/2006 5:31:28 PM PDT by Coleus

Hindu “Mass” Sparks Violent Altercation in Toronto Churchyard

by Cornelia R. Ferreira 

George’s eyes were glazing over. The “Indian Rite of Mass” was in full swing at St. Ann’s Church in Toronto on Sunday, July 2, 2006, and he felt he was being hypnotized by the endless monotonous chants and the flowing hand movements of the Indian dancing girls. Feeling nauseated, he left the front of the church and walked to the back to clear his mind. Along the way he noticed people frozen in the pews as though in a trance.

Scenes from the Hindu "Mass"

Above: Triple Arati

Underneath: The "Our Father"

 

George and some friends had learnt of this event at St. Ann’s through flyers that announced a “Roman Rite Liturgy of the Eucharist with religious cultural adaptations of India, approved by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India”. The Presider would be a certain Father Thomas D’Sa, Director of the National Biblical Catechetical Liturgical Centre (NBCLC) of the Indian Bishops’ Conference in Bangalore, India. The flyer pictured a “Jesus” dressed like a Hinduized Catholic priest, squatting in front of a large plate on which rested a huge “host” the size of an Indian unleavened bread called chappati.

George, unaware that the NBCLC was actually founded by the Indian bishops forty years ago in order to Hinduize the Church in India,[1] was scandalized by the idea of pagan rituals at a Catholic Mass. Complying with his Confirmation grace to defend the Faith, he and his friends went to St. Ann’s to educate and warn attendees that the service advertised in the flyer as the “Indian Order of Eucharistic Celebration” would be Hindu, not Indian. They intended to peacefully demonstrate be-forehand with placards proclaiming sentiments such as “Hinduism is not part of Catholicism,” and “Inculturation is the work of the devil”. They also wished to distribute copies of this writer’s article on the Hindu rituals used during Mother Teresa’s beatification Mass,[2] telling people to read it to understand what they would encounter. They did not have the opportunity, however, to carry out their plan until after the service, with unexpected results. But more on that later.

It should be noted that the event was advertised on the Archdiocese of Toronto website although there is no “Indian Rite” or “Ordo” that has official Vatican approval. Also, there is no exclusively “Indian” religion or culture, as many religions co-exist in that country. The “Mass” concocted in 1969 by the Indian bishops has always been a Hindu-Catholic syncretic hybrid, the version at St. Ann’s being an obvious adaptation for Western audiences.[3] As for dance during Mass, which has always been forbidden, even the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, in 1975, said dance “desacralizes” the liturgy, “introducing an atmosphere of profanity”.[4]

The Voice of Dance

The service was a consciousness-raising workshop, with Fr. D’Sa explaining the significance of each dance and ritual. Though cloaked in Catholic terminology, the explanations made it clear that he would be conducting Hindu worship or puja, with the barest essentials of the Mass grafted onto it. (Indeed, as it turned out, missing would be the Creed, Lamb of God and Final Blessing.) In any case, Hinduized Catholics do not use the words “Lord,” “Jesus,” or “God” in the Catholic sense. Hinduized priests admit that people at a puja-Mass “are not praying to some Christian Deity, but to the Deity who is understood and experienced in different ways in different religious cultures and traditions,”[5] i.e., they pray to the pantheistic, universal, impersonal Absolute, the Hindu god.  It was announced that Fr. D’Sa and his dance troupe were on a workshop tour. They had been in Europe and their next stop was the University of Winnipeg (“Celebrating Spirituality and Dance,” as advertised on Winnipeg’s Archdiocesan website).

A little background on the troupe is in order. Named “Nrityavani,” which means “the voice of dance,” it is an official organ of the Indian Bishops’ Conference. It was devised “to inculturate Catholicism through dance”[6] — in other words, to Hinduize Catholic liturgy and belief worldwide, through its adaptations of Indian classical dance, which is an expression of Hinduism. Directed by Fr. D’Sa, Nrityavani features Catholic dancers as young as nine, and at least one dancing priest.[7]   Now, in February 2006, the occult humanitarian Art of Living Foundation, a United Nations non-governmental association, founded by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (not the sitarist), held an interfaith Jubilee celebration. It drew 2.5 million people to the “first ever ‘spiritual Olympics’,” who meditated together as a “One-World Family”. Dignitaries included the Archbishop of Bangalore and over 1,000 spiritual leaders, as well as World Bank executives, NASA engineers, movie stars, heads of government and Nobel Laureates. Former Dutch Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers was also present; he is a partner of Mikhail Gorbachev in promoting the Earth Charter, and also Hans Küng’s associate for the anti-Christian Global Ethic. In line with Shan-kar’s philosophy, Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam suggested using music “as a binding force” for the world’s religions to promote an enlightened society and world harmony. Shankar also believes that “[e]ven inside the devil there is divinity, but it is sleeping. When it wakes up, the devil simply disappears”.[8]

On April 2, 2006, the Indian bishops honored Shankar’s Jubilee with a function at the NBCLC. The Indian website daijiworld.com com-mented:[9] “As the word ‘Catholic’ stands for a universal outlook encompassing everyone, NBCLC respects every religion”. The celebration theme was “Pilgrimage towards inner harmony” and “Living with people of other faiths”. Following NBCLC Director Father D’Sa’s welcome speech and Hindu devotional songs, Nrityavani dances depicted that “Wisdom is divine and the divine gifts are to be distributed freely”.

Homage to the Gods

Let us now return to the Hindu Ordo Mass at the century-old St. Ann’s Church in Toronto. Site of a Native Peoples’ Parish for two decades, it had already been desecrated by Canadian Indian rituals. Before the Mass, Father D’Sa announced he would be explaining the dance gestures and postures as used in “the Indian culture.” He said the Entrance Procession would be preceded by an opening dance honoring the Blessed Trinity. The three barefooted Nrityavani dancing girls positioned in front of the altar were introduced respectively as representing, by their gestures, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

More Scenes from the Hindu "Mass" 

The Blessed Trinity Dance featured the chanting of the magic (occult) mantra OM as each “Person” of the Trinity came “on stage”. Hinduism teaches that we need to develop the inner consciousness of our divinity and our oneness with the Absolute. Mantra vibrations induce a trance (recall George’s unease) in which we can feel ourselves one with the Supreme Divinity. OM is the su-preme vibration as it means “I Am” (appropriating the name by which the true God revealed Himself!). It began creation and initiates awareness. For this reason, and because “Divinity alone can worship Divinity,” every puja must start with OM, to help us recognize our “I Am”-ness and oneness. Mantras and hand gestures also alleg-edly purify and divinize the body.[10]

OM also is the Hindu god Krishna, himself a reincarnation of the god Vishnu, who is the personification of the Absolute. It also has sexual and black magic meanings. Further, the trunk of the elephant-head god Ganesha or Ganapati also represents OM, so Ganesha is usually the first god worshiped in a traditional puja. In 1980, Wladislaw Cardinal Rubin, Prefect of the Congregation for Oriental Churches, forbade the use of OM because it is “an essential, integral part of Hindu worship”.[11] Since the actual sound of OM represents the Hindu Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva,[12] and since the whole ceremony was profane, we are led to believe that the Holy Trinity Dance at St. Ann’s honored the Hindu, not the Christian Trinity.   After the Blessed Trinity Dance and[13] Entrance Procession, the priests were greeted with an arati of lights, after which Father D’Sa performed the same arati towards the people.

He had earlier told them, “We shall also welcome you with an Indian gesture called arati, with flowers and with a lamp”. As a dancer demonstrated how the arati plate is waved in three circles, Father D’Sa explained that the first circle stands for God who created us and the universe, the second circle for the universe, and the third for our fellow human beings. “In this way,” he said, “we are united with God, the universe, and with our fellow human beings in this one gesture called arati”. This statement clearly denoted the Hindu nature of the proceedings, as Hindus believe all men are united with the universal Absolute. Hinduism’s other deities are manifestations of the divine One.   Father D’Sa was disingenuous in describing arati as a mere “welcoming gesture” instead of as the most important ritual in Hindu worship. Arati is defined as a temple ritual in which a fire or light on a plate is waved in a clockwise direction in front of a deity, an important person, or anything valuable. Light is worshiped as the Supreme Lord of inner consciousness. The clockwise direction symbolizes one’s divinity, revealed by the “flame” or light of knowledge. Fire and light themselves are worshiped. Indeed, the puja-Mass was advertised in the flyer as “Divya Yagam,” a term meaning “worship of the Light”. Arati is also done to appease the goddess Arathi and to counteract “the evil eye”. Further, the Hindu gods demand adoration with flowers, incense and light. It just so happens that the puja-Mass features a triple arati of fire, flowers and incense sticks later in the proceedings.

Father D’Sa was the main celebrant, and the pastor of St. Ann’s the concelebrant. Both priests sported a white dot between the eyebrows. There are several varieties and meanings for this dot, the first being that the wearer proclaims he is a Hindu. The location between the eyebrows is supposed to be a center of spiritual energy and a focus of meditation. The dot in that position represents the “third eye” of divine inner sight — i.e., of occult knowledge and abilities — and awareness of unity with the universe, which Hindus seek to awaken. Focusing on the god within, the dot is a symbol of the worship of the intellect.[14]   Before the washing of the hands, Father D’Sa performed a superstitious ritual, offering blue and red flowers to the “eight directions of the world”. He said the flowers symbolized those present who were from different cultures and traditions, hoping for unity. However, in the regular Hindu ritual, flowers are offered to the gods of the eight directions, honoring the eight aspects of the god Shiva. The ritual is also done to obtain the protection of the god who rules a particular eighth section of the universe. Another reason for this puja is that one doesn’t know from which direction the Absolute Lord will come.[15] A different god, seemingly chosen according to need, is invoked for each direction. Father D’Sa himself chanted eight names as he touched the flowers to his forehead, nose and chest, then carefully arranged them on the altar at the compass points surrounding the host and chalices.

After the Great Amen, the dancing girls performed a triple arati of flowers, fire and incense to the accompaniment of more pagan chants whilst the celebrants held aloft the consecrated Sacred Species. Father D’Sa announced that this blasphemy was “the climactic part of our Eucharistic Prayer”.  At the Kiss of Peace, the congregation was told to fold their hands and do the Indian greeting of namaste to their neighbors. Namaste means “the god in me honors the god in you”. It awakens the third eye of the greeter to worship the god in the greeted.[16]

Another abomination took place at the Our Father. Instead of reciting the prayer together as a congregation, the people were asked to sit down while the girls launched into another interpretive dance number. Most gestures were completely un-fathomable, with the exception of receiving bread and forgiving trespasses (a shove, hurt feelings, forgiveness, hugs all around). The musical accompaniment was a Hare Krishna chant! Father D’Sa intoned the words “Our Father” four times. The response each time was the mantra “Hare Krishna”; towards the end of the prayer, the mantra was repeated over and over. Krishna, the reincarnation of Vishnu, who represents the Absolute Lord, is said to have se-duced 16,000 women, and a whole occult, erotic literature has been developed around this aspect of Krishna.[17] The words “Hare Krishna” mean “O energy of the Lord (Hare), O Lord (Krishna), please engage me in your service!” This energy is actually the goddess Radha, Krishna’s chief consort, who “helps the de-votee achieve the grace of the supreme Father,” Krishna, who reveals himself to the sincere devotee. The mantra “Hare Krish-na” is thus supposed to awaken spiritual consciousness.[18]

Replacing the Final Blessing, the Dance of the Last Supper was performed to illustrate the “social dimension” that should result from celebrating the Eucharist. The portrayal of “what we must do when we go out into the world” included the washing of the feet and another depiction of forgiveness.   Finally came the mutual gestures of appreciation between the two priests. The pastor announced a second collection to defray the touring expenses of the troupe. In gratitude for his hosting of the “Indian Order of the Eucharist,” the pastor was presented with a garland of flowers and a large picture of “Jesus as an Indian [i.e., Hindu] guru, Jesus in contemplation”.

The only applause came at the end of this presentation, and it seemed “led” and rather restrained. The absence of clapping by a liberal congregation was most unusual. Did the rituals engender a trance state, as intended, and as George had observed? Not everyone was hypnotized, however. Some people walked out during the service and others did not receive Communion.

All Hell Breaks Loose

Throughout the blasphemous puja-Mass, George’s friends Joan and Rose sat at the back, praying Rosaries, Litanies and other prayers. They spoke audibly, but quietly, “so that people would know something was wrong.” Right after the service, they started passing out copies of the Mother Teresa article to people inside the church. A Sister of St. Joseph (in plainclothes) testily enquired, “Did you get Father’s permission?”   “We don’t need Father’s permission,” they replied. The three kept handing out copies, urging people, “Read this. It explains everything that took place just now in this church.”

Standing on the front steps, they continued, “The church has been desecrated. The Body and Blood of Our Lord have been desecrated. Don’t go to this church any more!” At times they added, “The two priests are going to hell because of this!” Some people accepted the articles, others didn’t. One woman asked for a bunch and started distributing them herself.  The nun tried frantically to stop the demonstrators. “Get off the property! Get off the property!” she yelled. She ordered people not to take the article. “They don’t have Father’s permission. They are invading our church. They are strangers come to cause trouble.” She even snatched articles from parishioners’ hands and ripped them up.  People started hustling Rose and George down the steps. Suddenly, alerted by the furious nun, the pastor, still in his vestments (and garland), emerged and rushed wildly towards them. “Keep off the church property!” he shouted, trying to choke Rose.

“I saw the devil in his eyes,” she recalled.

George rushed to her defense, putting himself between the two. “Get your hands off her!” he shouted. “What do you think you’re doing, Father? Why are you picking on a woman? Pick on someone your own size!” (Rose is a diminutive 110 pounds, whilst both men are sturdily built, around 200 pounds.)   The priest knocked him aside and tried again to throttle Rose, so George intervened again. The priest was seen to punch and kick him, and George had to shove him away in self-defense. At some point the pastor was also seen ripping up Mother Teresa articles. Then he grabbed the bag of rolled-up placards Rose was holding and started shredding them to pieces. George retrieved the bag. Several times the trio accused the priest of being a wolf in sheep’s clothing.  About 50 church attendees were milling around, some seemingly stunned by the sight of their pastor attacking a woman and initiating a brawl. Several by-standers, however, entered the fray on the side of the priest, including one elderly woman who used her motorized wheelchair as a weapon. She ran over Rose’s foot, injuring it, and tried the same with George.  Many demanded to know who they were and from which organization they had come. “We are Roman Catholics just like you. We’re not from any organization,” they replied.

One man accused them of not following Vatican II.

Finally, indicating with a contemptuous hand movement that the trio were crazy, the pastor returned to the church. Ironically, he seemed to have forgotten the message of universal love and harmony pervading the Hinduized service.  For her own part, Rose thought only of the sacrileges, desecrations, and blindness of those involved. “It’s sad,” she said, reacting to the day’s events. “It’s very, very sad.” 

Notes: 

1. This is well documented in Victor J.F. Kulanday, The Paganization of the Church in India, 2d rev. ed. (San Thome, Madras: 1988).
2. Cornelia R. Ferreira, “Mother Teresa ‘Beatified’ with Idolatrous Rites,” Catholic Family News, January 2004 on the web at www.cfnews.org/beatipagan.htm (also available as a reprint #902 for $2.50US).
3. The original version is described in Kulanday’s book.
4. Ferreira, ibid.
5. India: The Lotus and the Cross, television documentary produced by Vishnu and Rita Mathur, SilverTouch Productions [Toronto], 2004.
6. Father Aidan Turner, “Man of Vision Bring [sic] Indian Dancers to Mass,” in “Diocesan News,” The Voice, www.thevoiceonline.org,  August 2005.
7. Ibid.; www.st-augustines-high.lancsngfl.ac.uk/index.html  (click on News, “Recent Events, “Nrityavani, June 1, 2005). The website lauds the troupe for spreading the Gospels “via Asian Dance,” thus disguising its Hindu-evangelizing nature even further.
8. “Silver Jubilee 2006,” www.artofliving.org
9. Jessie Rodrigues, “Bangalore: NBCLC Honours Art of Living Guru Sri Sri Ravi Shankar”.
10. Swami Bhajanananda Saraswati and Brahmachari Parameshwara, The Art of Seeing God,” www.kalimandir.org/homepage.asp  (click on “library”); Ashok Basargekar, “Perceiving the True Identity of the Absolute,” www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8891/pooja.txt   ; “Om: Symbol of the Absolute,” www.hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa022200.htm.  
11. Ferreira, ibid.; “Attributes of Ganesha,” www.emplenet.com/beliefs/whoisganesha.htm  
12. John B. Noss, Man’s Religions, 3d ed. (New York: The Macmillan Company, 1963), p. 279; Kulanday, pp. 82-83, 151.
13. Ferreira, ibid.
14. Articles on the dot can be found at www.experiencefestival.com/a/Hinduism/id/51452
 http://hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_9/msg00176.html ; www.jansarisevak.org.uk/HinduCulture.html ; and
www.experiencefestival.com/third_eye_chakra  
15. “Upachara: Offerings,” in “Shri Shri Shiva Mahadeva,” www.religiousworlds.com/mandalam/shiva.htm;  Jayaram V., “Ashtadikpalas: The Eight Vedic Gods,” www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/dikpalas.asp ; “Perceiving the True Identity”.
16. See www.experiencefestival.com/namaste .
17. Noss, pp. 287, 289-90.
18. “Maha-mantra,” www.krishna.com/main.php?id=620  ; A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, “Chanting Hare Krishna,” www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter7.html   ; “Hare Krishna …,” www.chanting.krishna.org/Articles/2003/04/009.html   ; Noss, pp. 289-290. Note: The mantra chanted at the Our Father was not the version popularized by the Hare Krishna Movement.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Eastern Religions; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: canada; toronto; waronjesus
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To: GeronL
That's because there is only one Church. All Christians are Catholic, whether they accept that fact or not. Those Christians who are members of schismatic sects (denominations, whatever) are still part of the Body of Christ; they are, sadly, its separated members. But we will all be one Body in the end. There will come a day when, to all appearances, the Enemy has won. The majority of Christians will be fooled by the Enemy's final power play and they will create a false religion that will turn this world into hell. The remnant of Christianity will gather behind the Bishop of Rome and, back to back, will face the foe together -- and for the last time. When the Battle at the End of the World comes, the Body of Christ will stand united under the Sign of the Cross -- and triumph. In hoc signo vincite!.
41 posted on 08/16/2006 9:50:24 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Coleus
I couldn't tell if this was a satire so I did some investigating. I did a Google search for 'Indian Order of Eucharistic Celebration' and came up with http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_05111999_new-delhi_en.html
I was really surprised!! This was a Mass celebrated by JPII.
Adaptations for India:

The Mass at the Stadium will have three Indian dances. Two win be at the entrance. The first will be a tribal dance leading the priests and bishops to the podium before the arrival of the Holy Father.

The second will be a prayer dance leading the Cardinals after the arrival of the Pope into the Stadium.

The third will be an offertory dance leading the persons with the offertory gifts to the altar.

At the Doxology when the Holy Father takes the chalice and paten with the host, the Aarati, which is a sign of veneration, will be performed by a group of young ladies. The Aarati will consist of the following: Pushpa arati, waving a tray of flowers with deepak (light) in the center and the showering of flower petals; Dhupa Aarati—the homage of incense; Deepa Aarati—the homage of light, waving of camphor fire and the ringing of the bell.
42 posted on 08/17/2006 5:57:10 AM PDT by kentuckycatholiceye
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To: Antoninus

" Look, you're either in communion with Rome, or not. If not, you don't have the right to call yourself Catholic."

That's a bit broad, isn't it? The Roman Church is only one of the particular churches within the Catholic Church and I think you will find that +BXVI has been quite clear that the Orthodox Churches are quite Catholic though Rome is in schism with them. Unfortunately, syncretism seems to be spreading in the Roman Church, not only in liturgics, but also in its theology. I recently finished reading a book about modern African Roman Catholic theology. I think the name of it is "The Face of Christ in Africa" or something like that. Frankly it was more than a little scary. One of the concerns which Orthodoxy has with Rome is this syncretism which seems to have reached something of a peak since Vatican II. I know the hope of our Orthodox theologians is that +BXVI is gradually rolling it back.


43 posted on 08/17/2006 6:05:42 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Antoninus
I had thought Rome was interested in getting in communion with the traditional Indian Christian church(es).

Sounds like some of the laity are not happy with that idea. Of course that's never stopped Rome has it?!

44 posted on 08/17/2006 6:25:02 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: B-Chan

Frankly, I thought we'd all end up backing the Bishop of Dublin, but ...... Well, anyway.


45 posted on 08/17/2006 6:27:02 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kolokotronis

Yup, never gonna' find those Orthodos "syncritizing" with anybody else ~ or each other!!!


46 posted on 08/17/2006 6:28:50 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Antoninus
. . . obviously, it wasn't a Mass

Obvious to whom? The article is frankly so hysterical that it is almost impossible to glean any facts from it, but as best I can tell, this was a Catholic mass featuring aspects of Indian culture - and it had been approved by the bishops of India. You should go to mass in Africa sometime!

47 posted on 08/17/2006 7:14:11 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: Coleus; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...


48 posted on 08/17/2006 7:50:56 AM PDT by NYer
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To: muawiyah
Besides, didn't David "dance before the Lord"?

*************

I didn't realize David was Catholic.

49 posted on 08/17/2006 8:00:29 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: muawiyah; FJ290; Coleus
I don't believe any authority in any of the various Christian churches in the world has ever denied that Thomas' Christians were Christians. No doubt there are ceremonies (and some beliefs) with which they don't agree, but the fundamental legitimacy hasn't been attacked. If so, maybe you can dig it up for us.

The "Thomas" Catholic Christians are found in the Syro Malankara Catholic Church. A few weeks ago, a visiting bishop from the Syro Malankara Catholic Church celebrated their Divine Liturgy on EWTN. There was no dancing. Women dressed in saris chanted the responses throughout the liturgy. It is one of the oldest liturgies in the Catholic Church, filled with great reverence. The entire liturgy is celebrated 'ad orientem'.

What was celebrated in St. Ann's in Toronto is a blasphemy and should be reported to Cardinal Arinze, immediately. Those involved in its preparation and celebration, should be brought to repentance or excommunicated.

50 posted on 08/17/2006 8:05:34 AM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer


51 posted on 08/17/2006 9:28:25 AM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: muawiyah
didn't David "dance before the Lord"?

In the Temple?

52 posted on 08/17/2006 9:56:35 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: GeronL
If its not biblical, its not Christianity

Where's that in the Bible?

Maybe you mean to say that if something is proscribed in the New Testament, then it isn't Christianity?

53 posted on 08/17/2006 9:58:47 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: muawiyah
one group of Catholics declaring the other group to be apostates, or whatever.

Apples and oranges. Liturgy either follows the Church's liturgical norms (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) or it doesn't.

Protestantism has no similar authority, only each individual Protestant's interpretation of the Bible.

54 posted on 08/17/2006 10:02:11 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan
Previous to the building of the first Temple by David's son Solomon, the Jews used a tabernacle ~ a temporary structure ~ to serve the purposes of a temple. In fact the Temple was simply a more permanent tabernacle.

The Ark of the Covenant was hauled around from place to place. It took a place of honor in the tabernacles or in the temples. David literally danced before the Ark of the Covenant. He did it with groups of people, and alone.

Anyway, I said David "danced before the Lord" as one translation has it, not that he "danced in the Temple" because there was no Temple, and the Ark was on the way to Jerusalem.

Given that David actually prophesied Jesus' final moments I'll take David's example as sufficient for the purpose of proving that dancing is acceptable in the eyes of God.

55 posted on 08/17/2006 10:27:53 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Aquinasfan

Which, as it happens, is not so. Protestants, like Catholics, are directed in the Bible to come to conclusions about scripture in groups.


56 posted on 08/17/2006 10:29:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Anyway, I said David "danced before the Lord" as one translation has it, not that he "danced in the Temple" because there was no Temple, and the Ark was on the way to Jerusalem.

I think you may be catching on. Show me someone dancing in the Holy of Holies at the Temple, or at the Last Supper or on Calvary and maybe I'll admit you have a point.
57 posted on 08/17/2006 10:38:38 AM PDT by Antoninus (Public schools are the madrassas of the American Left. --Ann Coulter, Godless)
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To: muawiyah
Which, as it happens, is not so. Protestants, like Catholics, are directed in the Bible to come to conclusions about scripture in groups.

2 Peter 3:16

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Matthew 18:16-20

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

1 Timothy 3:15

if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


58 posted on 08/17/2006 10:43:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Antoninus

And your point is?


59 posted on 08/17/2006 10:43:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Aquinasfan

I assume you are providing some of the admonitions in that regard, right? The other day we had a Freeper post what looked to be a dozen such admonitions.


60 posted on 08/17/2006 10:45:07 AM PDT by muawiyah
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