Posted on 08/10/2006 12:22:56 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
A Young Fool encounters Foolishness
Once upon a time, I was but a wee child in Reformed Theology, taking my first baby-steps into the beautiful Cathedral of Calvinism as a young Debater for Jerry Falwell's world-beating Liberty Debate Team (Our Creed: "Defeat Harvard. Defeat Navy. Defeat American Catholic. Defeat everyone. Crush them all, every time, no exceptions. Win every single National Championship, every year.... because as long as we Calvinists keep winning, Jerry won't excommunicate us for being Calvinists!!".)
Since a Debater is always expected to be able to immediately argue either side of any given question, I spent a lot of time in the local used book-store picking up various books on philosophy and theology and politics and economics... anything I could get my dirt-poor hands on for $2 or $3 dollars a copy. Anything to familiarize myself with multiple intellectual perspectives and multiple modes of argumentation.
Now, in the course of my researches, I happened across a little book entitled War Cycles, Peace Cycles by Richard Kelly Hoskins of Lynchburg, Virginia, regarding the short and long-term economic effects of Monetary Expansions and Contractions in the context of fractional-reserve lending. Hoskins was by no means an uneducated fellow (a capable Financial Advisor and Econometricist, some of his works are still occasionally cited today), but I was singularly disturbed by several passages in which he seemed to suggest a Racial component to Fractional-Reserve Lending (which he called "the Babylon System") versus his contrary suggestions for Joint-Venture Lending.
One passage which stood out in my mind read as follows:
The further I read, the more it was apparent to me that Hoskins regarded "Israel" as The White Race, the Adamic Race descended through Abraham, and that all Non-Whites were considered to him to be zuwr "strangers": Pagans at worst, "Samaritan" Christians at best... but never "Israel".
And so, being the young fool that I was, I did what any young fool would do... I looked Dick Hoskins up in the Lynchburg, Virginia phone book, and called him at his house.
I asked him what he would make of my spiritual position -- a Confessing Christian by Faith, mostly Prussian German by Ethnicity, but with a little 1/16 smidgen of Sioux Nation mixed in 3 or 4 generations back on my mother's side.
Hoskins informed me, quite cordially and without any rancor whatsoever, that God considered me to be a mixed-breed Bastard and that "A Bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 23:2) He advised me to marry "one of my own kind".
Well, I decided at that point (even before I knew him to be the godfather of the "Phinehas Priesthood", the most violent expression of the Christian Identity movement) that even if he was a good money-runner, Dick Hoskins' theology was a barrel full of wet, smelly, foolish Scheißdreck, with which I would have no truck whatsoever. The Christian Creed is this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28, KJV).
Unfortunately, however, "Christian Identity" (derived not from pagan Nazism but rather from its bastard godfather, British Israelism) is not the only theology which Racially divides the Body of Christ into Jew and Gentile, "Israel" and "Not-Israel", Blood and Blood-lines.
Dispensational Zionist Foolishness
The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium. As such it re-introduces the distinction between Jew and Gentile and replaces Faith with Race as a basis for divine favor. Consider the following citations from leading dispensationalists: (DISPENSATIONAL DISTORTIONS PART TWO, Redemptive History Distortions ~~ Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Th.D.)
However, with the establishment of the New Testament phase of the Church, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been abolished. This was the whole point of Peter's vision of the sheet filled with unclean animals in Acts 10: "What God has called clean, let no man call unclean." Thus, there is no separate Jewish program exalting them over saved Gentiles. THE CHURCH, which includes Jew and Gentile in one body, is the fruition and culmination of God's promises to the Jews. In evidence of this, we should note that Christians are called by distinctively Jewish names in the New Testament. "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:29). Christians are called "the circumcision" (Phil. 3:3), "the children" and "the seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:7, 29), the "Jerusalem which is above" and the "children of the promise" (Gal. 4:24-29). In fact, Christians compose "the Israel of God" for we are a "new creature" regarding which "circumcision availeth nothing" (Gal. 6:16).
Comparing Foolishness with Foolishness
In closing, I ask only (according to the Hebrew logical-interpretive method of "how much the more?")... if the heretical British-Israel/Christian-Identity Racialists pervert True Christianity by dividing the People of God along Racial lines, then how much the more do Dispensationalists also pervert the Word of God and divide the People of God along equally Racialist lines?
Consider the following:
Those aren't Quotations from Richard Kelly Hoskins... granted, they may sound like Christian Identity quotations, but they aren't.
These are nothing less than direct quotations from the leading lights of Dispensationalism in America -- Ryrie, Pentecost, Walvoord, Hoyt, Hunt, Thomas Ice. (I could've quoted Hagee, I suppose, but the man is absolutely freakin' nutbar).
All that I did was to replace "Israel" with "The White Race", and replace "Gentiles" with "Non-Whites".
Does Dispensationalist "theology" destroy the Racial equality of the Body of Christ? What you see is what you get.
God Damn all Racial Theology.
Until the Millenium, there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ, but during the Millenium a different dispensation is in effect and prior to the Cross, there was an Israel made ready to receive her King. Considering Christ was Jewish, why do you want God to damn Himself?
Your point #8 bears re-emphasis.
If the Jewish race is so insignificant, why is there so much conflict with that race and obvious supernatural struggle in their conflicts?
Don't let OP's faith in Calvin over faith in Christ disturb you, it's a 'Calvinist' 'thang'. ;^)
Even the Elders in heaven will spell out DIPSE in the end:
Dyanmen
Ischoo
Sophian
Pleyroo
Eschen
;^)
Thank you so very much for all those observations!
Oh, okay. So, to your way of thinking, Jesus Christ is the sort of fellow who welcomes all to Himself initially, and then says to His beloved Children 'Alright, all you guys in the Master Race shall be Kings, and all you guys in the Lower Races shall be slaves'". THAT'S your "Jesus"?! What Madness doth Heresy work upon the Minds of Men!
1.) In the first place, I am an Amillennialist. I do not believe that Jesus Christ was Lying when He said, in Matthew 12, Mark 3, and Luke 11, that He did in fact Bind Satan in the course of His Incarnation in order to prepare for His Church to Evangelize the Gentile Nations (i.e., "Despoiling The Strong Man's House"). If you want to reject Amillennialism, and believe that Jesus Christ was Lying, then I guess that's up to you. I, however, believe that Jesus was telling the Truth in the Gospels, and that we are currently in the "Myriad of Years" or "Millennium" (i.e., a Long Period of Time) during which Jesus has Bound Satan from preventing Evangelism of the Gentiles, and the Church is evangelizing the Gentile Nations.
2.) In the Second Place, however, if you prefer to believe that Jesus was Lying and reject Amillennialism -- then you must know that the pre-supposition that "during the Millenium a different dispensation is in effect", the Notion that there is or ever will be any kind of Racial Distinction whatsoever between Gentile Christians and Jewish Christians is NOT any kind of Orthodox Christian Theology at all --- but is instead an ugly, Heretical, Racially-Divisive Theology known as "Dispensationalism", which proposed an Un-Biblical distinction between "Israel" and "The Church" and which was developed only as recently as the 1830's, in total opposition to all prior Christian Teaching of the prior 2,000 years.
The Reverend Charles H. Spurgeon, himself an Historical Pre-Millennialist and who, as the "Prince of Preachers", "remains the single most published author in terms of volume in English history and has more material currently in print than any other Christian author living or dead", had this to say about the insane, Racially-Divisive Heresy of "Dispensationalism":
We have even heard it asserted that those who lived before the coming of Christ do not belong to the Church of God! We never know what we shall hear next, and perhaps it is a mercy that these absurdities are revealed at one time, in order that we may be able to endure their STUPIDITY without dying of amazement.
Why, EVERY child of God in EVERY place stands on the SAME footing; the Lord has not some children best beloved, some second-rate offspring, and others whom he hardly cares about. ~~ The Reverend Charles H. Spurgeon, "The Prince of Preachers", "JESUS CHRIST IMMUTABLE!"
And where the greatest Pre-Millennialist in history has spoken, by comparison to which every lickspittle Dispensationalist in history is but a mud-sucking crawfish, I say let them remain SILENT with their ugly, Un-Biblical, Racially-Divisive, "Dispensationalist" Heresy which contradicts the whole Bible and all Christian heritage, everywhere.
God does not "damn himself".
Rather, according to Galatians 3:28, God Damns all Racially-Divisive Theology -- such as the evil, ugly, Un-Biblical Heresy of "Dispensationalism".
Best, OP
You applaud the heretical Racial Division of the Body of Christ?
Vomitous.
You have proven in one post -- you know nothing of Prophecy; and until you Repent, you never will.
The Spiritual leading that I have is that Christ is timeless, not bound by our causal sense of an arrow of time. Thus He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, our names are recorded in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, and He sees the future as clearly as the past.
Seeing Satan fall from heaven, Peter denying him three times, Calvary, the Resurrection, His second coming, the new heaven and earth - are certain for Christ in timelessness because they exist regardless of our mortal sense of an arrow of time - and regardless of whether He is speaking as Alpha, Omega or enfleshed.
And from the science corner I also aver that the causal sense of an arrow of time is a human mental/visual four dimension limitation. It is not "reality".
IOW, I cannot impose my own sense of an arrow of time on anything God says but take what He says as Truth because He says it:
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:33-37
A lot of high-falutin' words from you, leading to this:
And He clearly says that His promise to Israel is secure (Revelation, Romans 11, etc.)
And yet you clearly refuse to acknowledge that "God's Israel" is THE CHURCH.
According to Galatians 6:16, it is Biblically-Mandatory that you believe that God's "Israel" in Prophecy = THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH.
And yet, you adamantly refuse to believe the Teachings of the Apostles. As I said -- you know nothing of Prophecy whatsoever; and until you repent of the Dispensationalist Heresy, you never will.
Your "leading" is quite bound indeed, Girl; and you are bound by it. You have falsely adopted the novel and quite-recent Heresy of Dispensationalism, and you interpret all Biblical references to "Israel" in that false light -- not the Light of God.
God condemns Dispensationalism through His greatest Pastors:
But you will not listen.
Why?
Because your Sin... is Pride.
You are incredibly wrong in that observation, OP. It is obvious that you do not know Alamo-Girl and her expertise in the area of time, physics, and creation.
She is among the most knowledgeable on these threads in those areas, I have read her writings before, and I have gone to the many science threads she has linked to, and I can AFFIRMATIVELY state that THOSE WORDS OF HERS ABOVE are not just written by her to sound "high falutin."
This has been an area of great interest and concern for her for many years, and she has encapsulated in those paragraphs to you ideas that I have seen by her and others in extensive essays.
You would do well to think your way through what she is saying because each word is carefully chosen and is not thrown willy-nilly onto the page just to "sound high-falutin."
Moreover, do not ping me to this thread again. As far as I'm concerned, you've already lost, as the histrionics you've displayed here do not deserve rational discussion.
I did not say that Alamo-Girl wrote what she did to sound "high-falutin".
That is not what I said, nor did I accuse her of same -- I said her words were high-falutin'; not that she wrote them to sound high-falutin'.
The difference is two-fold:
That is what I said.
Best, OP
2. Discuss the issues all you want but do NOT make it personal.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. -- Romans 13:2, KJV
My wife prefers the New International Version, which doesn't have those nasty "four letter words". However, I'm the one who works with my step-son on Bible Memorization; and as far as I am concerned, for Rote Instruction it's King James, or bust. Sorry, I don't think any other Version really "works" for memorization, "coarse" though the language may be.
Beyond that, I will respect your wish not to be pinged to this Thread again. I notice that you cannot bear to leave without one more Personal Accusation (of "histrionics"? For quoting Scripture and Patristics?) against me; but, as I never desired any Personal attacks in the first place, I will henceforth respect your request and ping you to this thread no more.
But you will not listen.
Why?
Because your Sin... is Pride.
= = = = =
I'm not usually very impressed with projection and this time greatly less than usual.
Thankfully, I know Angel-Gal rather well, if I dare say so.
She will likely not defend herself. She loathes contentiousness. She sticks much more strictly to Scripture on that score, than I do.
She's incredibly self-effacing.
Her scholarship and wisdom are rarely displayed above a fraction of their capacities.
Her heart-burning and born, Spirit-born humility is obvious to all with eyes to see and ears to hear.
She is incredibly gracious and kind. She is the opposite of a boorish, obnoxious, arrogant, pontificating curr.
Her spiritual and Scriptural understanding I'd rate in the top 0.0001% on FR . . . and probably in any other group one could imagine her in.
God has an incredibly soft spot in His heart for Angel-Gal. I suspect because of the way she has passed some incredibly tough tests with flying spiritual colors as well as because she loves so well like He loves.
And, for those wise or with a gnat's fart's worth of mental acuity . . . JimRob tends to think extremely highly of her.
With that, I'd best hush. Any more and I'll start to peel paint and the hide of her detractors.
Well put.
Now to increase my feeble awareness of your clever anacronym!
Thanks much.
I'm accused of loving everyone to this degree but
your walk with The Lord and your kindnesses to me insure that I'd always be eager to give you the shirt off my back if it could help you in any way.
Thanks.
Alright. I'll cool it.
However, since I am getting a little tired of people slamming the Abuse Button on me while traipsing away like innocent Monks of Athos themselves -- I will observe, in passing, that Buggman claimed he "would be right to call OP down" (Personal Attack), and also said that my words were The Words Of Satan (very Personal Attack), in his #284 -- all the while claiming to have "The Mods" on his side.
I'll cool it, I got it. But what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
I didn't say her sin was Vanity. That's my corner.
What I said was, "she's not giving any thought whatsoever to the idea that she might be wrong. She's not allowing for the possibility that Galatians 3:28 and 6:16 might overturn her entire perspective -- and until one allows for the possibility that one is entirely Wrong, one is limiting one's possibility to Learn."
Of course, I would like to see her respond, if she'll give it some thought. I should like to see if she'll seriously consider my counter-arguments enough to internalize them to her own position, and really understand them well enough to offer an actually applicable counter-argument.
Most people aren't able to do that. It's simply an unfortunate fact.
Alamo-Girl is incredibly open--especially for someone of such spiritual, intellectual and Scriptural stature and experience in the trenches of life--to seeing any flaw in her position or personhood.
I fail to see a whiff of such qualities in the thread starter. Perhaps my glasses need a fresh wipe. But I don't think that's the problem.
topcat, Gamecock . . . appears to me that TULIP needs to do some laundry, thorough house cleaning or general basic first grade instruction with one or more members.
Some hideous stuff pretending to be rational Scriptural discourse in an attitude that would make a lot of sailors I know blush in humility.
In terms of your solutions . . . I think your analysis is very, very astute.
I think it will likely be both.
The arguments I've read beginning this thread and under that screen name come across to me as absolutely raging, unmitigated . . . did I say . . . raging . . . hogwash.
It might be easier for Bin Laden to become a Christian than that I'd think otherwise. The evidence is too abundant.
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