Posted on 08/07/2006 6:18:10 AM PDT by topcat54
David Brog has written Standing with Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. The ten reviews I read on Amazon were quite favorable, and it is being advertised on WorldNetDaily. The fact that the Foreword was written by John Hagee, author of Jerusalem Countdown, From Daniel to Doomsday, Beginning of the End, and Final Dawn over Jerusalem, is a clear indication that the book’s thesis fits with the modern-day prophetic system known as dispensational premillennialism. I doubt that the book covers what this article reveals.
In my debate with Tommy Ice at American Vision’s Worldview Super Conference (May 26, 2006), Ice pointed out that one of the unique features of the dispensational system is that near the end of a future, post-rapture, seven-year tribulation period, Israel will be rescued by God. After nearly 2000 years of delayed promises, God will once again come to the rescue of His favored nation. Ice and other dispensationalists imply by this doctrine that they are Israel’s best friend, and anyone who does not adopt their way of interpreting the Bible is either anti-Semitic (Hal Lindsey) or a methodological naturalist (Tommy Ice).
In the debate, I wanted Tommy to explain how a belief in Israel’s glorious future results in the slaughter of two-thirds of the Jews living at the time the Great Tribulation nears the end of its seven-year run. I quoted the following dispensational writers to show that there is no glorious future for “all Jews who are under siege,” to use Tommy’s words, in the dispensational version of the Great Tribulation.
There are geopolitical implications to the dispensational system that some people have picked up on.
Dispensational theology as it relates to Israel is alarming to some Jewish leaders as well. Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, asks, “To what extent will a theological view that calls for Armageddon in the Middle East lead [evangelicals] to support policies that may move in that direction, rather than toward stability and peaceful coexistence?”(2) The most probable scenario is that prophetic futurists will sit back and do nothing as they see Israel go up in smoke since the Bible predicts an inevitable holocaust. It is time to recognize that these so-called end-time biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, and Zechariah 13:7–9 is certainly one of them. Those Jews living in Judea prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and who fled before the assault on the temple were saved (Matt. 24:15–22).Convinced that a nuclear Armageddon is an inevitable event within the divine scheme of things, many evangelical dispensationalists have committed themselves to a course for Israel that, by their own admission, will lead directly to a holocaust indescribably more savage and widespread than any vision of carnage that could have generated in Adolf Hitler’s criminal mind.(1)
1. Grace Halsell, Prophecy and Politics: Militant Evangelists on the Road to Nuclear War (Westport, CT: Lawrence Hill & Co., 1986), 195.
2. Quoted in Jeffery L. Sheler, “Odd Bedfellows,” U.S. News & World Report (August 12, 2002), 35.
Gary DeMar is president of American Vision and the author of more than 20 books. His latest is Myths, Lies, and Half Truths.
Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.
Unlike others whose faith takes them in the direction you state, I can't speak for the spiritual or religious. I can only speak to this physical world. And in this world, to repeat: Who stands with Israel? George W. Bush. His support for Israel has not wavered one iota throughout his presidency.
Yes, the cat can crawl into the oven and have kittens, but that doesn't make them biscuits.
If it's not true, why would they care? Why would they care what people believe? Could there be just a scintilla of fear that maybe it could be true? And do they think that if they deny it, none of what is prophesized will happen?
Its just funny how all the drama and controversy and rage always revolves around Jesus Christ. Gee, He must be a real threat to someone, huh?
You see that's where you run into problems tc. I don't go looking every day to see whether or not the Anti-Christ has been born or whether or not God is going to do a miracle in Israel. I'm not pointing to anything other than the mass of unfulfilled prophecies and God's promises to know that the futurist position is the most consistent with the Bible and with a more literal reading of the bible.
I am more a literalist than a dispensationalist. I believe that unless there is a clear and immediate allegorical context to the word of God, then it ought to be taken literally. So when the Bible speaks of 12 thousand people from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, I don't know why that should be taken allegorically. Indeed, it makes no sense from an allegorical standpoint. And when the Bible states that the tribulation will be the worst period of time that ever was or ever will be, I think it is idiotic to believe that this is a reference to some obscure siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, especially when the one in 130 AD was many times worse than the one in 70AD.
You never answered my question. Do you go to church on Sunday?
God always stands with the Jews, they are beloved for the father's sake.(Rom.11:28), even though they are under the mystery of blindness as a people (Rom.11:22).
Just as many people call themselves Christian, without being born again, would you agree that many call themselves Jews, not by being one inwardly, but outwardly?
There is a racial Jew that born in the line of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.
These Paul calls 'my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh'(Rom.9:3)
A Jew today who receives Christ becomes a Christian is no longer considered a Jew, just as a Gentile is no longer considered a Gentile (1Cor.10:32, Gal.3:28).
A 'true' Jew would follow the path of their father's and believe in Christ (Jn.8:39-40).
Still, all of the racial Jews will one day believe on Him, when they see Him coming in glory (Heb.8:8, Zeck 12:10).
Okay, can somebody tell me when exactly slandering and outright lying about one's Christian brothers was considered evidence of the Spirit?
You know, TC, it is the "Dispensationalists" who have consistantly supported Israel. It is the Presbyterians who have divested themselves of her. "Dispensationalists" want Israel to stand firm in the fact of attack; Replacement Theologists like DeMar want her to capitulate and thereby encourage more terrorism on innocent Jews.
The reason that Premills believe there will be another Holocaust is that we believe there will be a Holocaust against everyone who refuses to worship the final Man of Sin. That means that we expect the Jews to demonstrate their fidelity to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the same rigour as the Christians. We expect to be brothers.
With every article, you more and more prove that DeMar is too busy giving himself an uninstrumented colonoscopy to actually do his research and give reasoned answers to the actual beliefs of Premills instead of his strawmen.
Yes, and no messiah is coming to them, other than Jesus,
Mt 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Lu 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you , Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Then you have that whole issue of all that deny that Jesus is God come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-Christ. Dispensationalists want to somehow overlook these things, being enthralled with secular Israel.
Ditto here. I enjoy them as well.
Now that doesn't sound very loving...
Zechariah 13.
"Has Israel ever literally occupied all the land "from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"?"
According to God all that land IS the land of Israel. Whether or not it is or was inhabited by the Israelites is irrelevant. According to God all that land is included in the promise.
That wasn't my question. My question was has Israel ever "literally" occupied all the land outlined in that promise?
Glad to see you reading them.
True, and Zech, 12:10 says that the will look upon me whom they pierced'.
Now, a Jew must receive Christ as his personal saviour (1Cor.15:3-5) ( not his messiah.
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Lu 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you , Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Then you have that whole issue of all that deny that Jesus is God come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-Christ. Dispensationalists want to somehow overlook these things, being enthralled with secular Israel.
Actually, Dispenationalists are not enthralled with secular Israel per se.
They are against those who say that God is done with the Jews, which He is not.
Israel is a miracle nation and a sign that the prophecies predicted will come to pass, that of Tribulation, and the anti-Christ and the return of Christ as the King of Kings and lord of Lords.
To deny otherwise is to deny the truth of the Scriptures which state that God is going to set up a Jewish Kingdom as per the Davidic covenant (2Sam.7:14, Psa.89), and the New Covenants predicted in Heb.8:8 and Jer.31:31.
True.
And a Jew or a Gentile who does not receive Christ as their personal saviour in this Dispensation is going to hell as an unbeliever.
No Jew is saved because he is a Jew.
But those who survive by believing what Matthew 24 says and flee to Petra when the Anti-Christ comes, will be alive to see the one who they had rejected return in glory and they will repent and believe and be saved as a people.
It will be a small remnant that does survive so terrible will be the persecution in that day.
Agree He is not done, and some prophecies darker than others. You can't pick and choose the ones you like.
It says they refuse to repent even in the face of this horror, so I guess they aren't going to think it is so bad.
But I know people who say "Why worry? I'm in the tribe."
Not yet.
Christ has to return first for His church (1Thess.4) and then He returns to earth to destroy the anti-Christ.
A thousand year reign is then set up (Rev.20) that is Jewish, with its headquarters in Jerusalam.(Ezek 40-48)
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