Simon Peter's amanuensis Mark wrote in Mark 12:29
that Y'shua said
b'shem Y'shua
Posted on 07/28/2006 6:45:14 PM PDT by sionnsar
For those wondering what inspired the Episcopal Church's newly-elected, female presiding bishop to refer to "Mother Jesus" during the General Convention, the answer might be found on the "Office of Women's Ministries" (OWM) page on the official national church website.
Indeed, this is not the first time that the OWM has gotten into liturgical mischief.
The phrase used by Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori appears in a "Eucharist Using Female Nouns and Pronouns" on the OWM's section of the Episcopal Church (TEC)-sponsored website. The rite is accompanied by "Morning Prayers to the Lady" - and this does not mean our Lord's mother. Both services offer worship to "Our Lady" and to the "Holy Mother," and end with the salutation "Blessed be" - a common statement of farewell among Wiccans.
The author of the services, Sandra Thomas Fox, wrote them in 2001, five years after she had a feminist epiphany during her first walk in a labyrinth - a spiritual exercise that actually has New Age roots - at the National Cathedral. There, she became sensitized to "the misogyny in the liturgy."
The webpage that leads to the two feminist liturgies has an all-capitalized disclaimer for each: "NOT AN OFFICIAL LITURGY - FOR USE IN DISCUSSION." Nevertheless, the pages from which each of the services can be downloaded invite readers to use them as well in "gathering communities of worship." Therefore, these services can be used anywhere.
The feminist "Eucharist" invokes God thus: "Blessed be the Lady who births, redeems and sanctifies us."
The threefold Kyrie Eleison becomes this: (Celebrant): Loving Lady, have mercy; (People): Mother Jesus, have mercy; (Celebrant) Loving Lady, have mercy" - thereby giving Jesus both a sex change and children.
The prayers of the people - addressed to "Mother" - include the request that "every member of the Church may be your handmaiden" - thereby praying that all men in the church get a sex change.
The prayer of confession is addressed to "Most Merciful Lady."
The Great Thanksgiving begins, "May the Holy Mother be with you," and continues: "It is truly right, Mother, to give you thanks; for you alone are the I AM, living and true, dwelling in light inaccessible from before time and forever," and adds: "Blessed is she who comes in the name of Love."
With the prayer "Mother, you loved the world so much that you sent your only Son to be our Savior. Incarnate by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary," the consecration prayer claims that Jesus has two mommies - and no Father.
Immediately after the consecration of the bread and the wine, the celebrant says, "Mother, we now celebrate this memorial of your redemption." (A Freudian slip, perhaps?)
Oddly enough, the Lord's Prayer is unchanged - so this is the only spot in the service which addresses God as "Father."
The "Mass" ends when the celebrant tells the congregation, "Let us go forth empowered by the Love of our Lady," and the congregation replies, "Blessed be."
THE FEMINIST "MORNING PRAYER" service is similar in spirit. After the confession of sin (again addressed to the "Most Merciful Lady"), the celebrant says, "Nurturing Mother, have mercy on us; forgive us all our sins. Through your beautiful Son, Jesus Christ, strengthen us in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit sustain our eternal life."
Before the psalms, the celebrant says, "The mercy of our Lady is everlasting: come let us adore her." After the Psalm readings, the celebrant sings a new age Gloria Non Patri: "Glory to the Mother, and to her Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever."
In this service, too, the Lord's Prayer was unmolested - but the celebrant precedes it with "May our Holy Lady be with you...Let us pray the words of her beautiful Son, Jesus Christ."
The prayers of the people include "Keep your example of Motherhood ever before us; Let us see in all our children a sacred trust from you" - an invocation that seems out of place here, since the Women's Ministries site lists the pro-abortion Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice among "social justice" groups.
The General Thanksgiving at the end of the service starts, "Most merciful Mother, we your handmaidens give you thanks for your great love for us and for all you have made." The service ends when the celebrant says, "Let us give thanks to our Lady;" the congregation replies, "Blessed be."
AS EARLIER NOTED, this all began with Ms. Fox's first experience with walking the labyrinth at the 1996 Sacred Circles conference at Washington National Cathedral. That day, "during a guided meditation led by Dr. Sarah Fahy, I had met the wise woman who had told me, `Women are beautiful. You are beautiful,'" Fox wrote. "Immediately after I...walked one of the labyrinths set up in the nave. To my surprise, as I entered the path I dissolved into tears. Questions welled up inside of me. Why had no one ever told me I was beautiful? Why did I need to be told that women were beautiful? I sobbed my way into the center, where I sat until I was once again composed. As I began my walk out, the Eucharist was being celebrated at the high altar. I decided I would silently say these comforting, familiar words as I walked...But on this day, to my horror, these words I loved turned to dust and ashes in my mouth. All I could hear was `He, Him, Lord, Son, Father'...I had heard the misogyny in the liturgy, and there was no going back."
Fox continued, "I realized that I did not see my mother, my two daughters, or myself as made in the image of God. When I looked at the liturgy I discovered there are 195 male nouns and pronouns in Rite I and 145 in Rite II. In both cases, there is one reference to a woman - the Virgin Mary in the Creed. If our liturgy is our story, the telling of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, where are the voices of the women that Jesus loved, respected, and held dear? Where is an understanding of the holiness of being a daughter, wife, or mother? Wondering what it would be like to have a service to the Divine Feminine, I used Rite II, Prayer D [from the 1979 Prayer Book] as a starting point and wrote such a Eucharist in 2001.
"If one feels that reading this service is blasphemous, I can only say that writing it felt even more so. Yet I felt called to continue, for what else would allow us to see the narrowness of our current liturgy?...My hope is that this Eucharist will begin a dialogue about the ways in which language affects the quality of our worship, our feelings towards God, and our sense of being created in God's image."
As earlier indicated, this was not the first foray into the bizarre for TEC's Office of Women's Ministries. In 2004, there was an outcry over two other offerings on OWM's section of the official church website: "A Women's Eucharist: A Celebration of the Divine Feminine" and a "Liturgy for Divorce." The Women's Eucharist made no mention of Christ, nor of his Body and Blood, but gave thanks to "Mother God" for things like menstrual blood and breasts.
It emerged that the Women's Eucharist had been on a Druid website since 1998. What's more, it had been penned by "Glispa," who turned out to be part of a husband/wife Episcopal clergy couple who up until a short time earlier had also been involved with and promoting modern-day Druidism, including nude mating rituals and invocation of the "Horned God." Once exposed, Pennsylvania clergy Glyn Ruppe-Melnyck and her husband, W. William Melnyck, repented of their Druidry; Mr. Melnyk lost his parochial job over the issue but Mrs. Melnyk kept hers.
The two offending services, which were removed from the OWM website in the 2004 controversy, were part of OWM's "Women's Liturgy Project" to collect worship resources written by women for women - an initiative that, given the latest from the OWM, is evidently ongoing.
*Sources included: Sandra Thomas Fox, "Reflection on the Holy Eucharist,"
Women's Ministries, http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/41685_60499_ENG_HTM.htm;
Women's Ministries, "Liturgies Using Feminine Images," http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/41685_60497_ENG_HTM.htm, a page that links to texts for the two liturgies;
Women's Ministries, http://www.ecusa.anglican.org/41685_31001_ENG_HTM.htm, a blurb for the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice.
Simon Peter's amanuensis Mark wrote in Mark 12:29
that Y'shua said
b'shem Y'shua
"That reminds me of that movie about the Aboriginal tribe that worshiped a Coke bottle that fell out of a plane flying over the village."
I'm pretty fond of Coke myself. Maybe I should cut back.
"The Gods Must Be Crazy."
Amen.
"What would Moses say?"
____________________________________
I think we would all be drinking water laced with gold from a destroyed idol.
Amen. We once interviewed a realtor who said "Blessed Be."
That was the last time we saw him.
He didn't look like a warlock, but you just never know. They're everywhere. 8~)
And the fact that they're leading entire denominations is stunningly creepy.
"The Gods Must Be Crazy."
Yup. And they didn't worship the Coke bottle. They found it too useful, and an cause of contention. So somebody had to dispose of it.
"And just when he thought he would never find the edge of the world, he did."
I should watch that again, sometime before I die.
I even believe they are motivated by what they see as good reasons.
But as Gamecock said, it looks very different to outsiders and even to some insiders.
If the RC church is sincere about not worshiping Mary, then it seems like a good idea to...
***Stop praying to her because God was clear in His instruction that "thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God" (Exodus 34:14);
***Stop erecting statues of her at the front of your church which look a lot like the idols of silver and gold we are cautioned against in nearly every book of the Bible, "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21);
***Stop saying Mary was sinless because only one man was sinless who was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15);
***Stop asking her to be a mediator between yourselves and God "for there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5);
***And start directing ALL your veneration, admiration, worship, reverence and attention to the Holy Trinity because only then will it be clear that "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:8).
To the outside world, the veneration of Mary appears to be a compromise the church of Rome made with pagans. A real no-no and completely unnecessary.
"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." -- 1 John 4:10 "Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go." -- Isaiah 48:17
Ping to 89.
It's HOT here.
Very true, although you still get the shading of the Arminians who say they chose to have faith and therefore they are justified.
I guess it's not the worst thing in the world not to know your benefactor is completely responsible for the non-refundable, indestructible, personalized gift. 8~)
Yep. And the closer we can get to understanding "God's perspective," the happier and more productive we become.
Amazing, but that's been my experience.
In the April '06 (I think) edition of National Review, Fr. John Nehaus reviews a book about Catholicism, can't remember the specifics, but in the review he mentions that he knows of a parishoner that said 'why should I go to the Son, when I can go directly to His Mother?' He chalked that up to 'muddled theology', and pretty much said he didn't think such muddled theology was really harmful.
I'm not sure if she's the only Catholic who thinks that way, but I doubt it, because the role of Our Lord's Blessed Mother is such that the Pope asked for her intervention concerning the hostilities in the ME, instead of that of Our Lord's. It's hard for me to say what the cut off point is between veneration and worship, and I think probably most Catholics view their relationship with her as veneration.
Do you guys remember that scene in the Godfather, with the procession in the streets and the statue with all the money pinned on it? IIRC, that was a statue of Jesus, but the same was done with statues of Mary. My boss (who is Catholic), who grew up in Conneticut was telling me about it the other day by way of explaining that his mother absolutely hated those processions, and that she would always say to him how much she thought Our Lord's Blessed Mother would dislike such shows.
For a couple of reasons I never felt like I could approach Mary, being that she was considered to be conceived and preserved in sinlessness. But in addition to that, if and when I did attempt prayer I never knew how to place my thoughts, my dialogue was schizophrenic.
All that being said, I do have affection for her as I do for John The Baptist, Peter and Paul. Even now when I read the Scriptural passage that tells how John leapt in the womb at the sound of Mary's voice, I'm touched so very deeply by that. I'm touched very deeply by Paul's exhortation to find that love and peace there is to be found in the freedom of Christ. So, if there is a communion of saints, it is with this affection that I formulate my thoughts about them. Included in this communion of saints would also be the wonderful Deitrich Bonehoffer, the Churchmen he was associated with, Jean de Brebeuf and Damien the Leper. All of whom were and continue to be incredible examples of the gift of faith and the preservation and final fruition of that faith: they are profiles in courage, par excellence.
No, you had first used her instance to buttress a claim that Catholics worshipped Mary. Frankly, given the fact that she makes outlandish statements to tease you, that was dancing awfully close to the line between misleading and dishonest. So, pardon me when I'm not so quick to pick up on the fact that you were later joking.
"I'm not sure what you are saying here: From God's perspective it was determined by whom?"
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It was determined by GOD. At the time of conversion (myself included) it seems to the convert that they are in the drivers seat and "choose" to be saved, but in reality it is already determined by GOD. I fall into that camp that was drawn and couldn't resist. It really wasn't until later that I began to recognize this.
>> If the RC church is sincere about not worshiping Mary, then it seems like a good idea to... <<
No thanks, we're not about to stop doing something we'd done for 1500 years just because it's a point for the Protestants to attack. If we did, the counter-Catholics out there would just invent some new thing to complain about.
The facts, to any Catholic, are quite plain that we don't worship Mary. You see it as you want to see it because you believe your salvation depends on seeing it that way.
Just read post #37.
Faced with historical evidence that the title, "Mother of God," is found among the most ancient documents of Christendom, GWB sees that evidence only as proof of all sorts of wild things not at all in evidence, because he holds those presumptions as first things.
If we tore down every statue, banned every Marian piety, you'd still insist that the Eucharist itself was idolatry, no matter how directly the gospel contradicted your position.
Pardon my being blunt, but you don't know what the heck you are talking about. I happen to be born and raised a Catholic and the Scriptures are very revered among my family and my parish. I know many Catholics that know Scripture better than Protestants.
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