Posted on 07/22/2006 7:06:59 AM PDT by NYer
Aw dang, Jeff, you caught us red-handed!Trying to Hook More Youths on Priesthood
In this era of Eminem and Britney Spears, of sexy sitcoms and sexier commercials, of high-speed Internet and instant gratification, a life of celibacy devoted to God can be a hard sell to a teenager.
So as the nation's Roman Catholic leaders gathered recently and watched a video called "Fishers of Men," designed to draw young men to the priesthood, they had good reason to worry about the future of their chosen way of life.
Church leaders have long been aware of the statistics. There are now about 43,000 Catholic priests in America, down from more than 58,000 in 1965. As the U.S. Catholic population has risen to about 70 million, more churches have had to share priests.
What receives less attention is that the men who go into the seminary generally don't do so until later in life. The average age of newly ordained priests was 36 last year, up from 28 in the 1960s and 26 in the 1940s.
...
Observers of vocational trends say more effort is needed now because of smaller families, with parents who want grandchildren; a secularized culture wary of lifetime commitment and celibacy; Catholic assimilation in America; and increased family mobility, which detracts from parish loyalties. [More...]
As I am sure you know, there is abundant evidence in the Old Testament for a special priesthood for the one tribe of Levi. Deuteronomy 18:1–8 is just one among many such passages. This special priesthood could not be held by just anyone. It was restricted to those who were called. The author of Hebrews speaks of this Old Covenant priesthood in these terms in Hebrews 5:1–4.
Christ’s priesthood fulfills and supersedes the Aaronic priesthood. The letter to the Hebrews makes that clear. The entire people of God plays a priestly role in interceding for the world before God. But the Catholic Church insists that a ministerial priesthood exists in the New Covenant structure of the Church. This priesthood is based on and flows from Christ’s own priesthood. A properly ordained priest of the Church shares in a heightened and special way in the priesthood of Christ because he offers to God the same sacrifice that Jesus offered to God the Father. Jesus offered himself as the sacrifice to atone for sin (cf. 1 John 4:10; Heb. 9:12, 14, 26), and the priest today offers Jesus Christ back to the Father as the atonement for our sins.
Do you agree that Christ called some men to be his special representatives, such as in Matthew 4:19, Luke 6:13, and John 15:16? Do you agree that these men are called apostles and they are the human foundation of the Church (cf. Eph. 2:20)?
Now there you go screwing the whole thing up with a quote.
Its unBiblical that the Catholic Church forbids priests to marry and take an oath of celibacy as a requirement to be a priest.
The fact you claim its voluntarily is meaningless.
Where in the Bible, Book, chapter, and verse does it support where these support their actions?
Thanks for the post and the link. Unfortunately, I am on dial up at home, using an antiquated computer. Please reping me on Monday so I can watch the video over a T1 connection at work.
The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
You keep making that claim, but your proof is nothingness.
The fact you claim its voluntarily is meaningless.
I claim it's voluntary? It is. You're trying to dress up my truth as a lie. Won't work.
Where in the Bible, Book, chapter, and verse does it support where these support their actions?
Huh?
The Catholic Church says it voluntarily, ie, like in the army?
So if they don't take a vow of celibacy, can they be a priest?
Not a Roman Catholic priest.
Thank you. Its unBiblical is it not?
Nope.
Then where is it supported in the Bible that requires a roman Catholic priest to be non married?
Your inability to find such a verse does not make it "unBiblical," as you put it.
Yes it does. If you can't provide a Bible verse to support it, its unBiblical. Anyone can take a vow of celibacy, but first Timothy states you are to be the husband of but one wife and have children who are faithful.
Name one Roman Catholic priest who is currently married and celibate.
So says you. However, as between your own personal interpretation of scripture and the Catechism of His Church, I think I'll stay with 1900 years of scholarship and inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
...but first Timothy states you are to be the husband of but one wife and have children who are faithful.
It states it behoves one who would be a Bishop to have but one wife, and that his children be in subjection with all chastity.
This is a bit like trying to integrate Army officers into the Marine Corps. The priests of the Latin rite has an esprit de Corps, and this makes it awkward to admit those from the outside. Enough of them will inevitably change the institution. It will become more like the Protestant clergy, and as I grew up in a Protestant area, I am familiar with the strangths ans shortcoming of this ministry. They reject the idea of a sacerdotal order; what distinguishes a Protestant "layman" from a "minister" is simply that which distnguishes me from a lawyer. In THE Protestant scheme, there are ONLY laymen. That is not the Catholic, that is not the Orthodox view.
And 2000 years of scholarships says they are wrong. What about Martin Luther? He says they are wrong.
Feh. Says you. And you have a history on this thread of untruths.
What about Martin Luther?
What about him?
He says they are wrong.
And so do you. And both you and he bear a certain animus towards the Roman Catholic Church, why would I trust either of you? Why would I care? Why would the Roman Catholic Church care?
Luther was so bound by biblical concerns that he deleted several books from the Bible. Nice.
Dear marajade,
"And 2000 years of scholarships says they are wrong."
Please cite for me a Christian Scripture scholar from 2000 years ago who says that celibate priests are unbiblical.
Please cite for me such a person from, say, 1700 years ago, or even 1500 years ago. Or perhaps a thousand years ago.
sitetest
As for Luther, you don't know much about what he himself said . . .
In the third place, from this ordinance of creation God has himself exempted three categories of men, saying in Matthew 19 [:12], “There are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” Apart from these three groups, let no man presume to be without a spouse. And whoever does not fall within one of these categories should not consider anything except the estate of marriage. . . .-- The Estate of Marriage (1522) LW, vol. 45, 18-19, 21)The third category consists of those spiritually rich and exalted persons, bridled by the grace of God, who are equipped for marriage by nature and physical capacity and nevertheless voluntarily remain celibate. These put it this way, “I could marry if I wish, I am capable of it. But it does not attract me. I would rather work on the kingdom of heaven, i.e., the gospel, and beget spiritual children.” Such persons are rare, not one in a thousand, for they are a special miracle of God. No one should venture on such a life unless he be especially called by God, like Jeremiah [16:2], or unless he finds God’s grace to be so powerful within him that the divine injunction, “Be fruitful and multiply,” has no place in him.
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