Really? What's this then?
And this?
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Locked on 07/20/2006 9:47:04 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Toxic thread. |
Posted on 07/19/2006 10:40:38 AM PDT by Youngstown
IS THE NEW CATHEDRAL TO PADRE PIO IN SAN GIOVANNI ROTONDO ACTUALLY A "MASONIC TEMPLE"?
I have just received and am in the process of studying a special issue, #381 (March 2006), of the Italian religious magazine “CHIESA VIVA”. It is my understanding that in March 2006 this special issue was sent by the publisher/editor of “Chiesa Viva”, Dr. Monsignor Luigi Villa, to Catholic & 'catholic' priests, Bishops, Cardinals, as well as a selected group of Italian lay persons including members of the judiciary. This entire special issue deals with only one subject, that being the inauguration in July 2004 (construction began in 1996) of the new Cathedral dedicated to Padre Pio of San Giovanni Rotondo. The authors allege that after years of study they are now able to prove that this new church is in fact, NOT a Catholic Church, but rather a “Masonic temple”!
The authors (the engineer Franco Adessa) further allege that they have analyzed the complete church structure including the entry doors to the church, the altar plus the cross that hovers over it, the chapel of Adoration with the Tabernacle made out of jet black stone with the 13 plaques of silver as well as the immense stone cross that towers 40 meters over the piazza.
The authors allege that Masonic symbols are apparent everywhere. The authors allege that their special issue of Chiesa Viva has put into focus an alleged Masonic plan to DO battle with God by attempting to destroy the Catholic Church with Masonic Ecumenism. According to the authors the most devastating aspect of this blasphemy is the direct insult to the Holy Trinity and Our Lord Jesus Christ that have been symbolically displaced from the Cross and the Tabernacle and replaced by the blasphemous “Masonic triple trinity” and of Lucifer in person.
The authors allege that this story is one of money, power and control that go to the very top. To date news services around the world seem to be totally unaware of what has allegedly transpired in San Giovanni Rotondo, not one word has been uttered by the Vatican or other officials and millions of devotees to Saint Padre Pio are unaware and would be outraged if they ever suspected that their donations (estimated to be over $250,000,000.00 US) had been used to allegedly defame their beloved Saint!
If these allegations are in fact verified the scandal could be enormous. Millions of Catholics devoted to Padre Pio would be shocked and angry. The scandal would involve huge sums of money, the defamation of a Sainted Priest loved world wide by millions, the undermining of Faith, the undermining of the Catholic Hierarchy. It seems that officially no one in the Vatican is talking about this alleged scandal, even though a special reunion took place in San Giovanni Rotondo, on May 1 through May 6, 2006 attended by 150 Vatican experts including the Secretary of State Sodano. Ostensibly these experts converged on San Giovanni Rotondo to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the founding of the hospital (Casa di Sollievo della Sofferenza) by Padre Pio. Their meetings were open to the public during the day, however, their closed door evening meetings were allegedly dedicated to high level discussions of the Chiesa Viva special issue #381.It was subsequently reported, confidentially, that the Vatican has adopted an official solution that essentially amounts to total silence on this matter! If this is true then the allegations of Chiesa Viva may be much more than allegations and silence on the part of the Vatican is tantamount to conceding victory to Chiesa Viva. How long can this story be kept under wraps before the devotees of Padre Pio find out that they and their saint have been betrayed!?
If Catholics want to keep throwing hissy fits about the fact that Masons tolerate and have free association with men of different religions, let them do it off FR! And since FR is also a group of peoples who are NOT all Catholic, perhaps those who feel so strongly against such free association, should just go off to another site, where they can converse and mingle with ONLY other Catholics.
Yes, we all have the right to our own beliefs; however, once those beliefs become libelous and worse, they are NOT to be tolerated in polite society.
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.
This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
Therefore, the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation issued Feb. 17,1981.
In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, November 26, 1983
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger,
Prefect
Father Jerome Hamer, O.P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium, Secretary
He owes no apology. It is true that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons, and we owe them this nation. But that doesn't change the fact that Masons weren't always a benign organization, even in this country.
Hmm... what about this?
The adequate and general effect of excommunication is sufficiently evident thus far, from the explanation of the definition. In particular, the definitely classified canonical effects follow: exclusion from divine services of the Church, deprivation of the Sacraments (and sometimes sacramentals); exclusion from the public prayers of the Church, either by way of satisfaction or impetration; loss of the right to participate in legal acts of the Church; loss of income from ecclesiastical office; and loss of right to social intercourse in case of vitandus. Canon law distinguishes two fora or courts: the sacramental, or the tribunal of Penance, and the non-sacramental, either public or private. When the penitent appears in the sacramental forum, the Roman Ritual prescribes the same formula for absolution from excommunication as that used for remission of sin. In the non-sacramental forum, since absolution is a jurisdictional act, any formula expressing the effect intended may be employed. Following the general law of jurisdiction as it applies to censures, excommunication may be taken away by the one who had inflicted it, his superior, delegate, or successor.
Source: New Catholic Dictionary
Deprivation of the Sacraments, i.e., Communion seems like it would fit within the confines of Canon law mentioned above for
Theodon mentioned this link earlier and I found this interesting too:
The present legislation of the Church is contained in canon 1374:
Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.
In the previous Code (can 2335), Masonry is explicitly mentioned. As the declaration of 26 November 1983 explains, the omission of the name "Mason" in the present Church law is due to an "editorial criterion". Masonic associations are thus included under a more general heading which could include any other association conspiring against the Church (e.g. a specific communist party).
Clarification Concerning Catholics Becoming Freemasons
This taken into account along with the statements from our current Pope when he was Cardinal Ratzinger (which Theoden also posted)leads me to believe not much has changed regarding excommunication on Freemasonry. What do you think?
Not all of any group is good. Would you like me to start making a list of people who were born Catholic?
The entire premise of this thread, which has been completely over looked, is that this new, VERY ugly church is filled with Masonic imagery. It isn't.
TEN REASONS CATHOLICS CANNOT BE MASONS
Freemasonry, contrary to public perception, is a secret society rather than a fraternity. Its principles are fundamentally contrary to the Catholic faith and explicitly deny key tenets of Christianity. Below are ten reasons why Catholics cannot be Masons or participate in their activities.
1). The Holy See on Nov. 26, 1983, at the direction of the Pope, issued a "Declaration on Masonic Associations" restating the Church's position condemning the basic principles of Freemasonry. It also states that Catholics who join Masonic organizations are in a state of grave sin and are automatically denied Holy Communion.
2). God as described in Masonic works is an impersonal "Great Architect of the Universeî," not the personal God of the Patriarchs, the One True God of Revelation, the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.
3). Masonic writings specifically deny that God has revealed Himself and His truths to us, or that He ever established a Church.
4). In Masonry Jesus Christ is portrayed as merely a man, a great teacher, on a par with Buddha or Mohammed and His Divinity is denied.
5). The Trinity is denied and compared to the "trinitiesî"of pagan religions. The Holy Spirit is blasphemed by Masonry's denial of the Divine Inspiration of Scripture.
6). Christianity is considered a derivative of ancient pagan religions and like all religions deliberately ladens itself with error. God is portrayed as a deceiver who leads many men away from truth as not all are worthy of it.
7). All truth is relative according to Masonry, thereby rejecting objective, absolute truth and therefore the dogmas of the Catholic faith.
8). Freemasonry is portrayed as the foundation of all religion and it is built on Naturalism, a system of belief that makes human nature and human reason supreme in all things.
9). At the various degrees when an oath is sworn, even the initial ones, it is a blood oath swearing for example, "binding myself by no less penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the sands of the sea..." This is a real oath sworn with one's hand on the Bible or Torah, etc.
10). One can easily be deceived by Masonry's rituals and symbols that an objective transformation of man is being carried out. This will lead one away from the workings of God's grace especially manifested in the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Remember, Masonry denies Christís Divinity and therefore His role as our Savior.
That's kind of double speak there when in one post you say that they must all believe in God to join, but in this post you say it isn't a religious organization? If it isn't a religious organization, there would be absolutely NO mention of God. For example, I don't have to tell the YMCA that I believe in God to join.
For a Catholic to support Freemasonry in any way is a bit like a Jew to support the Nazis.
You've heard of metaphors and similes before, right? The Nazis tried to destroy the Jews and their culture in Europe. The Freemasons contributed to the destruction of the Catholic culture and order in Europe in the 19th century. You see the point he was getting at?
In a word, rubbish!
Oh, is that all you're going to say to in response? Are you going to explain?
Skull and Bones is a college fraternity ( well, not really, it is an "eating club", but oh what the hey...LOL ) and it is also *gasp* "secret". So are most fraternities and sororities.
The Elk, the Moose, et al are likewise "secret" fraternal organizations.
And none of what you posted has anything whatsoever to do with the topic of this ridiculous thread, BTW. That church is UGLY, but there are NO Masonic symbols in it. Trying to say otherwise, is just patently ridiculous and offensive to boot.
Wow, it seems like I've struck a nerve. You're right in a way, it's not a religion, because it's about naturalism.
No he did not. Please look at the post again:
For a Catholic to support Freemasonry in any way is a bit like a Jew to support the Nazis.
Freemasonry has in its history sworn to wipe out Catholicism as the Nazis wanted to wipe out the Jews.
It's an analogy that you don't go get chummy with the very people who want to destroy you.
The article at the beginning of the thread could be silly, but it lead to a real issue.
Nope. I don't debate or pass info to parroting bigots.
Boy I do Pyro! I just posted nearly what you said above.
LOL! If all you can throw around is epithets like a raging leftist, you're not worth my time.
Are you a M.I.?
Really? What's this then?
And this?
Where have I or anyone else on this thread remotely said that the Catholic objection to Freemasonry is that those of different religions are in free association? If you want to toss around accusation of libel so casually, why don't you look in the mirror as you seem to be libeling Catholics? Certainly I didn't say that. Catholics understand that Freemasons teach principles contrary to the Catholic faith, such as that the Catholic Church is not the one true religion (presumably worship of Isis and Osiris and such is equally valid). If that is true, then it is perfectly reasonable for Catholics to object to participation in the Masons, whether or not it is a religious organization. If the Masons do not teach that but merely are neutral on the relative truth of different religions, then you could show that. One could object to the substantive points by arguing that Masonic beliefs and principles do not contradict Catholic beliefs. You have not done so, but rather make up a spurious criticism of Masons that no Catholic has ever made. Perhaps there is a difference between modern US masons and those of Europe in previous centuries, but as it is a secretive organization, it is hard to tell. Being from a Protestant background with several ancestors who were Masons, I can with confidence state that the cultural milieu of my ancestors who were Masons was very much prejudiced against the Catholic Church, so I would not be surprised if the Masons, at least in earlier years, did see the Catholic Church as an enemy to enlightenment and progress.
On the issue of this church design, however, I think it silly to go around trying to interpret ambiguous design elements as Masonic. It seems a bit paranoid -- if a design can be interpreted compatibly with orthodox belief, then give it the benefit of the doubt. And while I am second to no one in decrying the wreckovation of historic churches, I don't mind a certain amount of architectural and design experimentation in new churches.
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