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To: nopardons
If Catholics want to keep throwing hissy fits about the fact that Masons tolerate and have free association with men of different religions, let them do it off FR!

Where have I or anyone else on this thread remotely said that the Catholic objection to Freemasonry is that those of different religions are in free association? If you want to toss around accusation of libel so casually, why don't you look in the mirror as you seem to be libeling Catholics? Certainly I didn't say that. Catholics understand that Freemasons teach principles contrary to the Catholic faith, such as that the Catholic Church is not the one true religion (presumably worship of Isis and Osiris and such is equally valid). If that is true, then it is perfectly reasonable for Catholics to object to participation in the Masons, whether or not it is a religious organization. If the Masons do not teach that but merely are neutral on the relative truth of different religions, then you could show that. One could object to the substantive points by arguing that Masonic beliefs and principles do not contradict Catholic beliefs. You have not done so, but rather make up a spurious criticism of Masons that no Catholic has ever made. Perhaps there is a difference between modern US masons and those of Europe in previous centuries, but as it is a secretive organization, it is hard to tell. Being from a Protestant background with several ancestors who were Masons, I can with confidence state that the cultural milieu of my ancestors who were Masons was very much prejudiced against the Catholic Church, so I would not be surprised if the Masons, at least in earlier years, did see the Catholic Church as an enemy to enlightenment and progress.

On the issue of this church design, however, I think it silly to go around trying to interpret ambiguous design elements as Masonic. It seems a bit paranoid -- if a design can be interpreted compatibly with orthodox belief, then give it the benefit of the doubt. And while I am second to no one in decrying the wreckovation of historic churches, I don't mind a certain amount of architectural and design experimentation in new churches.

80 posted on 07/19/2006 9:00:03 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
You claim that I am painting with far too broad a brush, yet you say that the Protestant members of your family, who were Masons, didn't like Catholics...as if THAT is true for ALL Masons. Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft..........

There has been NOTHING, but Masonbashing, by Catholics, on this thread and GOD forbid, any Mason or member of a Masonic family, dare to refute your lies, and they just get more of them. I'd say that this proves just which amongst us is the intolerant; not to mention vile and nasty.

I have stated the very genesis of the Catholic's church's anti-Masonry views. I bet none of you bothered to read a word of it.

Yes, Freemasonry DOES teach something counter to Catholic teachings...that all men are equal and that men of good character should be viewed as "brothers".

When Freemasonry was begun, until quite recently, Catholics were forbidden to go inside another religions' church or temple; even to attend a funeral or a wedding, where they were not asked to participate in any religious activities. They couldn't even go into a church hall to attend an MYF ( Methodist Youth Fellowship ) dance, where absolutely NOTHING religious was going on. This, BTW, was in 1957.

At least, in your final paragraph, you got around to talking about the article that heads this thread. And no, I see NOTHING that could even vaguely be called "Masonic symbology" in the picture.

100 posted on 07/19/2006 9:29:25 PM PDT by nopardons
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