Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?

Holy Cross Center for Religion, Ethics and Culture ^ | 3/28/06 | William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman

[dukeman]

A Debate between

William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman

On March 28, 2006, Dr. Craig, Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology in La Mirada, California, and Dr. Ehrman, James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, debated the status of the Christian claim to Jesus' resurrection from the perspective of historical data. The debate was sponsored by the Center for Religion, Ethics and Culture and the Campus Christian Fellowship.

[hosepipe]

[ I have, and always have had, hope, faith, and love...it's just different from yours, and, I believe, it too came from God. ]

We (I think) both know that Stu.. i.e. this conversation.. I don't think I'm smarter than you, cause its not a matter of "smarts".. Which is the tenor/demeanor of this conversation..

[hosepipe]

[ Not as easy as this. I believe God exists but Jesus isn't what others claimed him to be. ]

Jesus is either who he said he was, and still is..
or Not who he said he was, and still isn't..

The Universal Crap Game.. what number are you betting on?..
Snake Eyes is always present/possible.. and the dice might be loaded..
Scary thought eh!.. Gotta be careful whom you play with..

[Uri’el-2012]

Evidence of the Resurreciton of Jesus Christ? Well, let's see....

.....

2. The Sabbath changed from last day of the week to the first day of the week. A stiff-necked people did not change their minds on a deep spiritual matter just for giggles or something to do on a slow day. ...........

7 posted on 06/06/2006 1:45:11 PM MDT by N. Theknow

A Pagan celebration was created on the day of the Sun.

The L-rd G-d, creator of the universe never changed the L-rd's Day from Shabbat.

b'shem Y'shua

[Dominic Harr]

IOW, a man cannot do anything of his own will to find God – it is a gift. (Eph 2:8-9, I Cor 1:22-29)

Hi:

I guess that means that since I haven't "heard" god, then it's his fault?

[Dominic Harr]

There is very good, historical proof of the five facts listed at the end of my post #61, much of it from oustside the Gospels.

With David Koresh, a large group of people believed he was Jesus.

You and I apply reason to determine he was likely *not*. Yet you choose not to use the same reasoning when considering the Jesus story.

There is no extra-biblical information "proving" that Jesus wasn't just like Koresh, or Jim Jones, or that Heaven's Gate guy.

When Christians start applying the same kind of reason power to the story of Jesus, then maybe I'd be more inclined to believe you have something.

Don't get me wrong -- most of my family are Christian, I was raised Roman Catholic. Christians are good people, generally. I do not mind at all that ya'll have beliefs I don't share.

But this idea of "proof" of Jesus simply is not true. And when I hear ya'll claim there *is* proof, it damages your credibility in my eyes.

[Dominic Harr]

I just wonder why it never occurs to some folks that Jesus *might* have been like David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or that Heaven's Gate guy.

I would say that is one very likely explanation for this.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights! Your essay/post reminds me Romans 8.

[Uri’el-2012]

No, Matthias was chosen as the new 12th Apostle. Paul was never an Apostle per se, but oddly enough did more than the others in my opinion to spread the Word.

13 posted on 06/06/2006 6:53:23 PM MDT by Nabber

Matthias was man's choice. Drawn by lot.

The drawing was done before the Ru'ach HaKodesh came at Shavuot. ( Pentecost )

When men make choices without consulting G-d they fail!

We never hear of Matthias again.

Y'shua then chose Paul as His Apostle.

b'shem Y'shua

[hosepipe]

[ The L-rd G-d, creator of the universe never changed the L-rd's Day from Shabbat. ]

All the days are the Lords days. 365... 24/7.. Seeing one day over another is well... pagan..
Wheres that scripture?.. Oh! well its in there somewhere..

[Uri’el-2012]

Seek the face of G-d and ask for some AGAPE towards others.

b'shem Y'shua

[hosepipe]

[ I just wonder why it never occurs to some folks that Jesus *might* have been like David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or that Heaven's Gate guy. ]

OR his critics like an american democrat or other leftist..
i.e. clueless thinking they are quite smart..

[Uri’el-2012]

XS>[ The L-rd G-d, creator of the universe never changed the L-rd's Day from Shabbat. ]

All the days are the Lords days. 365... 24/7.. Seeing one day over another is well... pagan..

Wheres that scripture?.. Oh! well its in there somewhere..

149 posted on 06/11/2006 10:29:48 AM MDT by hosepipe

Cherry picking scripture is very easy.

Reading the whole counsel of G-d under the guidance of the Ru'ach HaKodesh is more difficult.

b'shem Y'shua

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your reply!

I guess that means that since I haven't "heard" god, then it's his fault?

The Scriptures answer as follows (excerpt from Romans 9):

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Nevertheless, as betty boop has pointed out earlier - God is not stingy. He hears earnest pleas for "ears to hear".

[Uri’el-2012]

ping

[hosepipe]

[ Reading the whole counsel of G-d under the guidance of the (a)Ru'ach HaKodesh is more difficult. ]

My point exactly.. The (a)"Holy Spirit" trumps tradition or passion plays or earthy holy days..

[stuartcr]

So it is dependent on a supernatural explanation? If someone doesn't believe in supernatural explanations, then they can't possibly see the truth...sounds like the primate guy...if you don't believe, then you are incapable of believing.....still no way of knowing for sure until we die..... Sounds relative to me.

[stuartcr]

I was probably what one would call a RCINO.

[stuartcr]

It's not about smarts, just about why there is no evidence, that does not require a belief in something else that has no evidence, and why every religion isn't held in the same light as any other.

[restornu]

I was probably what one would call a RCINO.

****

Well we are all different and some on earth for some reason just never take.

its a mystery!

One has to have a desire to receive!

Logic will only get you so far in this are for it is a different language then the one we use in everyday life.

You can not have a conversation with another if you refuse to acknowledge their means of communitcation!

You were spirit first before this physical body!

You want to know about God you must use your spiritual mind or be aware of the Light of Chirst and also the Holy Ghost!

The Light of Christ is always around us and sometimes it is intense enough to be aware of it presents!

The Holy Spirit will enlighten those who have a strong desire in the Lord to know!

I am sure in the course of you life you have encounter them just not aware of what it was!

When you visit places dedicated to the Lord I am sure you feel a since of peace!

[hosepipe]

[ It's not about smarts, just about why there is no evidence, that does not require a belief in something else that has no evidence, and why every religion isn't held in the same light as any other. ]

Evidence theres a word.. The meaning of the word Evidence shows the difference between Clouseau and Columbo.. with degrees in between them.. Its easy to be blind to the obvious and/or the occluded..

A study of religion and religions will show there are "types" of religion.. They are not all on the same level of sophistication.. God does not need religion.. Clergy does.. And people that depend on clergy like it that way.. Separates them from some responsibility in some form.. depending on the religion involved..

There is either a God or there is Not.. If there is he/she/it can lead you to where you need to be.. Obviously you are where you need to be, right now.. Everything is the best it can be.. You are where you need to be.. maybe you are not one of the "chosen".. its possible..

On the other hand maybe you are chosen but need a little cajoling.. Either way its beyond my spiritual pay grade to decide one way or the other.. You ARE where you need to be.. NOW.. Beautiful isn't it?..

Is God COOL OR What?..