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Bishops to vote on new Order of Mass in English
Catholic News Service ^ | May 24, 2006 | Jerry Filteau

Posted on 05/25/2006 10:03:35 AM PDT by NYer

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To: NYer
the Vatican wishes to restore the name Roman Missal, since it is an English translation, with minor adaptations, of the normative Latin "Missale Romanum."

***************

Excellent! I am very happy to hear this.

21 posted on 05/25/2006 11:31:52 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: blu

maybe you could scan it and send .pdf files?


22 posted on 05/25/2006 11:34:02 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: Jaded

For the past several years, Fr. John Zuhlsdorf has been doing translations of the prayers of the Mass (and commentary) in the Wanderer in his column What Does The Prayer Really Say? ( I think that's the title.) He's got the articles all archived on his blog:

www.wdtprs.com

--tkoed


23 posted on 05/25/2006 11:57:22 AM PDT by The King of Elflands Daughter
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To: Salvation

"Can't they translate Latin to English?????!!!!!"

Not can't; won't.

Many, if not most, American bishops have a liturgical and doctrinal agenda which does not include faithfullness to Rome and Catholic tradition.


24 posted on 05/25/2006 12:03:01 PM PDT by rogator
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To: NYer
By way of comparison:

Latin: "Et cum spiritu tuo"
Anglican Use: "And with thy spirit"
Proposed: "And with your spirit"
Current: "And also with you"

Latin: "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa"
Anglican Use: (no confiteor?)
Proposed: "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault"
Current: "through my own fault"

Latin: "credo"
Anglican Use: "I believe"
Proposed: "I believe"
Current: "we believe"

Latin: "Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth"
Anglican Use: "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of Hosts"
Proposed: "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts"
Current: "Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of power and might."

The last mistranslation particularly bugs me. "Power and might"...it's such a sissified translation for what is supposed to be the Lord God standing at the head of the angelic hosts, an army riding into spiritual battle. Prolly why the feminizers didn't like it.

25 posted on 05/25/2006 12:04:31 PM PDT by Claud
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To: NYer

The deacon in our parish gave instructions on changes last year, such as:
1. Bowing before receiving communion
2. Do not hold hands during the Lords Prayer
3. Do not copy the priest when he signs (in the mind-from the lips-in the heart) before reading the gospel...he suggested a simple sign of the cross
4. Remaining kneeling before going to communion

Except for #4, compliance in my parish has been poor


26 posted on 05/25/2006 12:12:00 PM PDT by kidd
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To: kidd
3. Do not copy the priest when he signs (in the mind-from the lips-in the heart) before reading the gospel...he suggested a simple sign of the cross

This surprises me...we do this at our Latin Mass and I never remember not doing it. Is it a new innovation?

27 posted on 05/25/2006 12:19:02 PM PDT by Claud
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To: kidd
3. Do not copy the priest when he signs (in the mind-from the lips-in the heart) before reading the gospel...he suggested a simple sign of the cross

There's nothing wrong with that. That has been done since long before Vatican II. In fact, my Traditional Latin Mass missal states the following concerning the practice.

The faithful rise and remain standing during the Gospel. At the beginning they make the sign of the cross upon the forehead, lips, and heart to declare that they will never be ashamed of the word of God, that they are ready to confess it by word of mouth, and that they love it with all their heart.

28 posted on 05/25/2006 12:20:42 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (What do leftists, Islamists, & Jack Chick and his ilk have in common? Hatred of the Catholic Church)
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To: Claud

See my #28.


29 posted on 05/25/2006 12:22:02 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (What do leftists, Islamists, & Jack Chick and his ilk have in common? Hatred of the Catholic Church)
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To: kidd

>>3. Do not copy the priest when he signs (in the mind-from the lips-in the heart) before reading the gospel...he suggested a simple sign of the cross<<<

Is there anything wrong with that? I was taught to say "Lord cleanse my mind, my mouth, and my heart so that I may worthily proclaim the Gospel" (silently) while doing that. I would stop doing it if there is a good reason.


30 posted on 05/25/2006 12:40:18 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: Claud; Pyro7480

The general rule in the TLM is to mimic the priest's signs of the cross during the spoken/audible parts of the Mass.

That would include the Gospel, but not when he makes the Sign of the Crosses during the Canon, for example.

In the Novus Ordo, the same applies, except you can't use the audible rule.


31 posted on 05/25/2006 12:45:03 PM PDT by jrny
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To: Salvation
Thanks for the ping. Wish they would return all the way to:

"Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof. Speak but the word and my soul will be healed."

Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world."

32 posted on 05/25/2006 12:48:42 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: Pyro7480
The faithful rise and remain standing during the Gospel. At the beginning they make the sign of the cross upon the forehead, lips, and heart to declare that they will never be ashamed of the word of God, that they are ready to confess it by word of mouth, and that they love it with all their heart.

As it should be. Why do they keep wanting to change things? Leave well enough alone already.

33 posted on 05/25/2006 12:52:36 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Campion; BlackElk; ninenot; sitetest; Romulus; dangus; gbcdoj
I can't find Jungmann's Volume I of the Mass of tne Roman Rite (I lose and find books in my house all the time) but I do vaguely recall he cited a Jewish prayer which response to "The Lord be with you" was "and also with you."

Something close to that (This is off the top of my head). Do you recall anything similar or ever hear/read of that explanation? I'm not claiming Jungmann is definitive or authoritative on this point.

I'm pinging a few others

34 posted on 05/25/2006 2:03:21 PM PDT by bornacatholic (Pope Paul VI. "Use of the old Ordo Missae is in no way left to the choice of priests or people.")
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To: ElkGroveDan

That is one EVIL looking "altar." Blood red. Gack.


35 posted on 05/25/2006 2:28:59 PM PDT by redhead (The REAL redhead--not the lefty impostor...)
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To: NYer

This is most excellent. I only started attending "the Old Latin Mass", the Tridentine Rite, last August. However, I recognize all of the "changes" that Rome wants to make to the "New Mass". They are all straight out of The Old Latin Mass!! So, their idea is to move the New Mass back towards it's "roots", so to speak. Thank God!! The liberalisms that seem to creep into the new mass in greater numbers each year are driving me crazy. Are the American Bishops so liberal that they are even opposed to THIS??


36 posted on 05/25/2006 2:32:02 PM PDT by Zetman (This secret to simple and inexpensive cold fusion intentionally left blank.)
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To: Zetman
They are all straight out of The Old Latin Mass!!

Actually, they're straight from the New Mass also, but from the authoritative Latin edition of the Roman Missal, not the pitiful ICEL translation English-speaking Catholics have been using for 40 years.

The real Latin text of the New Mass isn't as far from the Tridentine Rite as the bad ICEL translation would make you think.

37 posted on 05/25/2006 3:11:04 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: bornacatholic

I don't know, but the Latin text is clearly "Et cum spiritu tuo", which translates word for word as "And with [the] spirit yours", not anywhere close to "And also with you", which would be something like "Et etiam tecum" in Latin.


38 posted on 05/25/2006 3:15:47 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
The real Latin text of the New Mass isn't as far from the Tridentine Rite as the bad ICEL translation would make you think.

Really?? That's good to hear. I am not as familiar with all the different translations, and what names they are called by. It sounds like this ICEL translation you mention should probably be scrapped in favor of a more accurate translation. However, I suspect that many people smarter than me have been saying THAT for years!! Maybe even decades.

I always arrive late for these parties!!

: )
39 posted on 05/25/2006 4:22:49 PM PDT by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: ElkGroveDan

I think those guys are Buddhists, not Buddhas. They're not levitating.


40 posted on 05/25/2006 4:35:47 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Let all creation sing of salvation. Let us together give praise forever!)
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