The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[colorcountry]

Avenging Angel? Orrin Porter Rockwell was once a poster at FR? Wow, I thought he was dead. If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die. LOL

[P-Marlowe]

If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die. LOL

I've always wondered (even when I was an LDS) why, if there were 3 Nephites who would never die, then why did the plates have to be buried and why did the American Church which was supposedly established by Jesus in AD 33, die off completely? What have these Nephites been doing all this time? Hiding in some cave protecting the holy grail?

And if these guys held the priesthood from then until now, then what was the need for a restoration of the priesthood from heaven? Didn't these living Nephites have the authority to pass the priesthood down according the the mormon theology?

Just wondering.

[1000 silverlings]

there are three Nephites who will never die? I didn't see that on Big Love.

[Colofornian]

So is that the way you address most challenges? Just use someone else to make an indirect ad hominen attack (citing the Delphi User link)?

Rather convenient, don't you think?

The other link you put up mentions the IRR content, but the IRR content is in reality BoM content.

Do you want to explain your own personal belief why it is that "the Son of" has been inserted into three BoM passages that was not in the 1830 version?

Do you want to explain your own personal belief as why later editors of the BoM changed kings in the text?

Do you want to explain your own personal belief as to why the BoM even has post-dictation editors?

Do you want to explain your own personal beliefs as to why a man-turned-angel named Nephi [and if Nephi was such a great man, why didn't he become a god?...in fact, that's a curious evolution: man to angel? do you believe you could become an angel?] would bother to painstakingly record on gold plates the phrase "and it came to pass" at least 999 times when such a phrase would be a cumbersome phrase to etch in gold?

For the record LDS authors like Brant A. Gardner concede that the BoM uses the phrase 999 times and that "that 'and it came to pass' appears to be even more prevalent in that edition that it does in the modern version

Haven't you ever been round a campfire when you just knew that somebody telling "The Legend of XYZ" was making it up on the spot...and that by throwing out excess baggage words, it gave them time to construct what was going to come next? If I was making up a new historical book, and I had to figure what "boogie men" were next going to fight God's righteous tribes, I think inserting the phrase, "and it came to pass" 1,000 times would give me just enough time to throw something together. And you know what, that phrase in my story would be more common in the beginning because it's harder when you're starting from scratch and you have to develop all the characters.

Well, surprise, surprise. 1 Nephi has the phrase in the 37 of its 49 chapters!

[Colofornian]

Avenging Angel? Orrin Porter Rockwell was once a poster at FR? Wow, I thought he was dead. If he's still around after all these years, he must be one of the three Nephites who will never die.

LOL!!!

That'll teach that avenger! Dare he try to avenge in this e-territory, he'll be tarred & feathered with e-banishment and sent into e-purgatory or e-spirit prison until somebody's e-baptized by proxy on his behalf!

[colorcountry]

Well........maybe living forever is a curse. As someone who is saved and knows where I'll go after I die (with assurance), I'd have to say it definatley IS a curse.

Those three Nephite dudes must have done something very, very bad...Jehova (Jesus, who is not the same as Elohim, God) must have caused a cloud upon their minds so they couldn't remember where the blasted Hill Cumorah was, and obviously they lost the priesthood because they fell into evil.

BUT WAIT....the Church never published an "official" statement that the three Nephites actually exist....OR that the Apostle John is still wandering the earth, never to die. : )

[colorcountry]

I'm going to use that as my new tagline.

Watch out, you'll be e-banished and sent into e-spirit prison until somebody e-baptizes you by proxy.

[Colofornian]

Nibley writes They are frequently puzzled at how Joseph Smith could find out the real biblical teaching since modern Judaism and Christianity abandoned them thousands of years ago.

Wow! What an attack on Christianity!!! Somehow we find it too routine as we daily absorb LDS leaders' blasts and those who post their comments--comments which label Christians as those who abandon "real" Biblical teachings. Joseph Smith himself said all our creeds were an "abomination" to God and that our professing leaders were "corrupt."

Yet, somehow, some LDS folks get upset when their sacred books or doctrines are critiqued. You can't have it both ways. You can't call us betrayers, apostates, abominations, and corrupt, and then expect us to not object, can you?

We don't attack the person, like I was in an indirect way on an earlier post in this thread. But we do contest beliefs and doctrines and what portends to be the Word of God!

In our book, are LDS an "abomination" to God? No! They are the pearl of great price to Him, for He gives His own Son that they might live!

So, which gospel are we to believe? The "restored" version which in one fell swoop labels all of our creeds as an "abomination" and our leaders as "corrupt?" Or, rather, the one which says that all people made in God's image are so valuable that He would leave heaven to find that which is lost?

[restornu]

That was no hominen it was very real that thread was because of the Avenging Angel....

What I don't understand is it is a fact that the LDS has answered the same question over and over and never has the poster bother to acknowledge they just move on to the next
the talking point!

It seems to the poster it is not about dialogue or a discussion it is about lampoon and other immature actions!

I don’t agree with Full Court, but it is the same pack of wolves that go around trying to make themselves feel better than to have a dialogue with a fellowman!

This is the most unkind thing to do and I don’t think the Lord redeem us to behave in such a matter.

His commandment is to Love One Another …..he can see all of our hearts and minds we only have a limited view on the whole situation!

Why is that so hard to do the things Jesus ask us, if we say we love the Lord Jesus Christ?

[Utah Girl]

I do intend on replying. However it will be next week. I am going out of town for the weekend.

[colorcountry]

Thanks for the warning. : ) I'm just kidding. Have a fun time.

[Colofornian]

Nibley writes: Uniquely Mormon doctrines such as the anthropomorphic nature of God, the divine nature and deification potential of man, the plurality of deities, the divine sanction of polygamy, the fallacy of sola scriptura, the superiority of the charismatic leaders over the ecclesiastical leaders and their importance, the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ, the importance of contemporary revelation, and so forth are all original Jewish and Christian thought before they were abandoned mainly due to Greek philosophical influence.

So. The "restored" Gospel (the old truths that were supposedly "true" before Christians came and suppressed them were):

(1) God is made in the image of man ("anthropomorphic nature of God");

(2) We are gods in embryo ("the divine nature...of man")

(3) We are candidates for godhood ("deification potential of man") [How can we be both god-in-embryo and yet only have divine "potentiality"? I guess that's consistent at least with the "Pro-choice" worldview...embryos are only potentially human...and we all know where that doctrine came from!

(4) We all need to embrace polytheism ("the plurality of deities")

(5) "Polygamy as a divine sanction" (if not for time, then for eternity)

(6) "The fallacy of Scripture alone" [If Scripture doesn't at least need a pope or a church to interpret it, it at least needs an LDS living prophet because Scripture alone apparently just doesn't cut it, eh?...so much for 2 Peter 1:20: "Above all [in the Greek that means "Above all"], you must understand [in the Greek that means "you must understand"] that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation."

(7) "the inconsequence of Original Sin because of the Atonement of Christ" (the fact that "wide is the road that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life" is now "inconsequential?" What? The majority of folks heading to eternal hell is inconsequential? [and the BoM describes hell in terms of eternal damnation, not a temporary spirit prison, mind you). Only in LDS land was sin a fall "upward" because it opened the door to godhood.

(8) "The importance of contemporary revelation" (What? Since when isn't the Living Christ "contemporary" enough for LDS leaders? "In the PAST God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but IN THESE LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son...through whom He made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2).

Christ IS our Contemporary, Living Prophet and Living Revelation! While He may choose to send forth mouthpieces on His behalf, they are like undershepherds of the Chief Shepherd. We have no lack of a Living Prophet. No mere mortal usurps His place on the Prophetic Throne. He is still Prophet, High Priest and King as the prophets of old foretold!

[visually_augmented]

restornu: "There are 3 members of the Godhead if you want to think they are one blob find"

No doubt most Bible believers attest to the 3 persons of the Godhead. I think I need a bit more information to understand your definition of "3 members".

The Bible is very explicit that there is only one God. I would have to print a veritable book in order to reference all the instances in the Bible that indicate but one God. The 3 persons of this Godhead must be such that their essence is still one.

This characteristic of God is one that many have struggled over throughout history and our full understanding of this will not be complete until after our dying breath. Suffice it to say that Christ knew what he was talking about when he made the following statement:

John 5 (NKJV)
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

[colorcountry]

I keep on posting rebuttals, because you keep posting devotionals.

I recognize the fact that all LDS are admonished to "always be missionaries." I was one once, remember. There is no lack of places you can go for LDS Devotionals. In fact the Religion Moderator even said that devotionals may be better suited for denominational sites, unlike FR that is made for social discourse and discussion....(or something like that.)

You are posting these "devotionals" as a protected way to "get your message out" without allowing for rebuttal. For those of us who believe you are portraying an inaccurate picture, and possibly causing Christians to fall away, it is our responsibility to confront these claims of the LDS head on. As long as you keep posting your point of view, I will keep rebutting it. I believe it is something God has called me to do....just as LDS believe they need to proselyte to, and convert all of us.

[restornu]

In other words you want the LDS Freepers to shut up and disappear?

[colorcountry]

No, I do not want you to shut up and disappear...even though that is what you asked us Christians to do.

I said, I would rebut what I see as an attempt to misrepresent the word of God. I vow to do that as long as I live and breathe. I also vow to be respectful of individuals that may entertain those erroneous beliefs. I try very hard not to impugn any person. And restornu, I have tried never, never to attack you personally. If I have I repent here and now publicly.

[CholeraJoe]

If the Mormons are descendants of a tribe of Israelites, how come there are so many blue-eyed blonds named Sorenson in SLC and very few Goldstiens?

[TXBubba]

The members of the Godhead I believe in are not schizo!

Thank you for your clarification of that fact. I had two mormon missionaries try to tell me that they worshipped the same God that I did. You have succeeded to clarifying to me that they don't. Thanks again.

[Diego1618]

Click on the photo!

Already have...that's what prompted my original post #15 and question to you.