Posted on 03/24/2006 6:06:40 AM PST by marshmallow
DALLAS. A “host” kept in a jar of water for four weeks grew fungus and bacterial colonies in a natural process, a laboratory report concluded about an incident in a local parish church that created public speculation.
A March 23 letter from Dallas Bishop Charles Grahmann to the pastor of St. James Parish relayed that what some were calling a ‘miracle’ of a host “contains nothing of a supernatural nature.”
The letter to Msgr. Mario Magbanua states: “At my request the object you submitted to me, around which there was heightened publicity, was presented to Dr. Marcy Brown Marsden, chairman and associate professor of biology, University of Dallas, and Dr. Frank Doe of the same department, for tentative identification and characterization of the object.”
The bishop said that after analysis was done he was provided with their conclusion.
They told the bishop: “We conclude that the object is a combination of fungal mycelia and bacterial colonies that have been incubated within the aquatic environment of the glass during the four-week period in which it was stored in the open air.”
The bishop further wrote: ““From this conclusion the phenomenon was of the natural order and contains nothing of a supernatural nature. Thus, you need to remove yourself from any further activity surrounding this matter and its exaggerated claims.”
The incident began about a month ago when a young boy received the Eucharist at Mass and then became sick in the restroom. Ushers who checked on him found the intact host in the bin.
The ushers reportedly summoned Msgr. Magbanua, who came to retrieve the host. He put the host in water to dissolve, where it remained unseen until March 19. Its appearance had changed, viewers said.
Within hours people were coming to the church to see the host, which is located in a low-income area and has approximately 2,000 registered parishioners.
Fueled by telephone and e-mail stories saying a miracle had occurred, as well as media reports, curious scores of the faithful hoping to see something extraordinary began to show up.
Among those was Shirley Vilfordi, a member of St. Rita Parish in Dallas. She was among those who suggested people should not be too quick to rush to conclusions, and thanked those who took quick action to discover the truth.
“We praise God for our beloved church who wants to investigate these things thoroughly rather than falsely mislead the faithful,” Vilfordi said as the investigation was ongoing.
There have been other cases in past years when a host received fungal and/or bacteria contamination when it was not properly consumed and/or disposed.
Church officials said the matter is now closed and called on faithful to end any further speculation.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. – Galatians 2:16-21
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. - John 3:5
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Note: none of them say saved by grace through faith and church, faith and alms, faith and good works, etc. Nope, faith alone.
Actually exactly none of them say "faith alone." No one doubts that faith is a requirement, that it allows us access to grace. That is what the Bible teaches, not "faith alone."
The only pairing in the KJV of the words "faith" and "alone" is in the James verse I posted above. Faith alone is dead.
I'm sure someone convinced you that the Bible gives the appearance of teaching faith alone, but that is an accident.
SD
No one said works give you faith. Both faith and works are the result of grace. It is grace that saves.
Works without faith don't save.
Faith without works doesn't save.
Grace saves and it brings out in us both faith and good works.
SD
Yes, by grace. Not by faith alone, apart from works. Because we know that faith alone is dead. Shouldn't we read the Bible verses together, and not in idolation?
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
"Works of the law" means something. Specifically, it refers to the idea that salvation is acheived by being perfect Jews, following the law given at Sinai perfectly.
Not really relevant to the discussion, but thanks.
SD
Is this your own interpetation?
I use the word of God, not of man. The words speak plainly to those with ears to hear. Grace is by faith. Nothing else.
Works without faith don't save.
Faith without works doesn't save.***
Works cannot save at all.
Faith without works is not faith.
LOL. Yeah, it's my own private interpretation. LOL
I use the word of God, not of man.
Then it should be easy to cite the word of God teaching "faith alone."
The words speak plainly to those with ears to hear. Grace is by faith. Nothing else.
"Plainly" must mean something different to you. The only mating of the words "faith" and "alone" in the entire Bible is in condemnation of the idea. And this you hang your hat on as "plainly." Go figure.
SD
I was jesting about the interetation thing. I have been accused of it a lot.
If you want to get down to it, there are a lot of things not specified that we have to take by faith, the Triune God for one. Nowhere does the word trinity appear in the Bible, yet this is one of those things we certainly believe. When it says you are saved by grace, though faith, I have to take the Bible's word for it. I can't add saved by faith and three years perfect attendance in the church, or faith and 4 Hail Marys every third day. You get me point, don't you?
If you really believe this, then we are having a semantical difference over the meaning of the word "faith."
But I think there's more to it.
SD
Faith without works is not faith, but it can be belief. Faith is belief with application, demonstration of that saving work of Jesus. How can we love until we are loved by God? None of our "works" before grace are worth the spit in our mouths.
Do you believe you are saved by faith (which includes works) or by belief?
Do you believe your salvation is guaranteed no matter what you do?
SD
"A mere profession of faith is not enough. We must keep His commandments and walk in Him."
I'm sure I don't need to remind you that a "mere profession of faith" in those days, specifically the public confession "Jesus is Lord" could have gotten you beaten up killed.
Similarly, the phrase "believe in your heart" speaks of a lack of hypocracy of they type exibited by the "Lord, Lord!" crowd. Faith, true faith from the heart is the primary "work" of God. All other works flow from that. A faith which doesn't exhibit obediance is not a true faith from the heart, but rather a faith of the head or worse, of just the mouth.
How many commands did the theif on the cross have time to keep?
***Do you believe you are saved by faith (which includes works) ***
See, that's the problem. I never said that. Faith comes from God, not by our works. Our faith is DEMONSTRATED by our works. In other words, faith without works is NOT faith, it is only a belief. I can believe in a lot of things, I believe that there is a Paris, even though I have never been there, I believe in America, I beleive that tonight I will have a beer, but i don't take those by faith. I am rambling, but, I hope I am making things clearer so that you can understand where I am at.
Do you believe your salvation is guaranteed no matter what you do?
***
I believe that all who Christ called to be his will NEVER lose that faith. Christ cannot be defeated. If he claims someone, they are his forever. Otherwise there is no hope. Remember, it is not my salvation, but Christ's. He bought it, he owns it.
Do you believe you are saved by faith (which includes works)
See, that's the problem. I never said that. Faith comes from God, not by our works.
And I never said that faith comes through our works and not "from God." I thought I was clear that I believe grace comes from God and results in both our faith and our good actions.
Let me re-phrase. Do you believe you are saved by faith (which must be accompanied by works) or belief?
I am rambling, but, I hope I am making things clearer so that you can understand where I am at.
We're trying, which is good. There was a lot of ugliness on this thread and I appreciate that we are able to discuss on a civil level.
SD
I'm sure I don't need to remind you that a "mere profession of faith" in those days, specifically the public confession "Jesus is Lord" could have gotten you beaten up killed.
So that voids the words in 1 John?
I tend to think John meant the words he wrote.
Similarly, the phrase "believe in your heart" speaks of a lack of hypocracy of they type exibited by the "Lord, Lord!" crowd. Faith, true faith from the heart is the primary "work" of God. All other works flow from that. A faith which doesn't exhibit obediance is not a true faith from the heart, but rather a faith of the head or worse, of just the mouth.
Yep. True faith goes beyond mere words.
How many commands did the theif on the cross have time to keep?
Do you think God is incapable of judging us based upon our circumstances? I don't. Someone who is a professed believer for 20 years is going to be expected to have done a lot more than one who converts on his deathbed.
I think God can sort it out without you simplifying things for Him by negating the Scriptural exhirtation of John (and others) to follow through on our professions of faith, to walk in Him, to work out our salvation.
SD
Do you believe that that set of people includes you, no matter what you may do?
SD
What I believe is that grace comes through faith, and God gives us that faith.
That faith is evident by our works, that God also gave for us to do.
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