[SoothingDave]

Faith without works is not faith.

Do you believe you are saved by faith (which includes works)

See, that's the problem. I never said that. Faith comes from God, not by our works.

And I never said that faith comes through our works and not "from God." I thought I was clear that I believe grace comes from God and results in both our faith and our good actions.

Let me re-phrase. Do you believe you are saved by faith (which must be accompanied by works) or belief?

I am rambling, but, I hope I am making things clearer so that you can understand where I am at.

We're trying, which is good. There was a lot of ugliness on this thread and I appreciate that we are able to discuss on a civil level.

SD

[irishtenor]

What I believe is that grace comes through faith, and God gives us that faith.

That faith is evident by our works, that God also gave for us to do.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"Let me re-phrase. Do you believe you are saved by faith (which must be accompanied by works) or belief?"

SD, (forgive me for failing to greet you earlier) greetings to you! Good to see you again.

Consider all the folks Christ healed in his ministry. How did they get healed? Did they do good things so Jesus would notice them and heal them?

No. they simply brought their problems to the One who they thought could do something about them. This is faith - the faith of the sick who need a Physician.

Of course this does not nullify the "Go and sin no more.", but that is always after the fact of the healing.

Thoughts?