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Cloning may help terrible prophecies come true: another Christ or antichrist
Pravda ^ | Pravda

Posted on 03/07/2006 9:34:16 PM PST by Iam1ru1-2

Cloning may help terrible prophecies come true

Researchers say they would like to clone Christ. But with this good intention they on the contrary may get an antichrist. Famous chemist Alan Adler who studied samples of the shroud of Turin, the legendary burial cloth into which Jesus Christ was wrapped after crucifixion, made a sensational statement not long ago.

The researcher said there was blood on the shroud and it was shed by a man who died a violent death.

The University of Texas Center for Advanced DNA Technologies, USA, analyzed the DNA of the bloodstains. Head of the Center Victor Tryon confirmed that was human genetic material. It was divided into several samples and sent to different laboratories for further analysis.

No results of the research have been published yet but there are certainly some. Dr. Leoncio A. Garza-Valdes, one of the few researchers allowed to touch the shroud of Turin is working on his book that will have a shocking name, The DNA of God.

The very abbreviation DNA seemed to be rather common for majority of people a couple of years ago. But today it is a serious cause for anxiety. Indeed, DNA gives researchers an opportunity to produce clones, a copy of any creature whose DNA is available for experiments. Experiments of this type have been already made public: Dolly the sheep became an absolute cloned copy of a sheep whose genetic material, DNA, was available.

Soon, it became clear that cloning humans was also possible. Professor Richard Seed declared he would solve the human cloning problem by the end of the millennium. He said he was seeking a fitting candidate for cloning. Finally, researchers supposed that blood found on the shroud of Turin might be used as genetic material for cloning.

Last year, in an interview to The Time Dr. Leoncio A. Garza-Valdes summed up the decade-long dispute about the authenticity of the shroud of Turin. The researcher said he had no doubts that the shroud of Turin had been Christ' burial cloth and that it was his blood that stained the cloth.

In 1988, three laboratories from England, Switzerland and the US conducted a radiocarbon analysis and made a conclusion that the fabric of which the shroud was made was produced in the 14th century. In other words, the laboratories stated the shroud was a fake. And it was just recently that the erroneous conclusions were disproved. Russian researchers removed the cause of the doubts.

Russia's Doctor of chemistry Dmitry Kuznetsov conducted several experiments to persuade his colleagues that they were mistaken when determined the cloth dated back to the 14th century. He said the results of the radiocarbon analysis were distorted with excessive carbon that the fabric absorbed during a fire that the shroud had stood. He stated that in fact the shroud was older than traditionally believed and was at least 2,000 years old.

Some of the prophecies of the past sound particularly mysterious today. It was predicted that there would be another coming of Christ. At the same time it is known there was a prediction telling that an antichrist in the appearance of Christ and in his flesh would come too. In other words, this antichrist may be a fake double of Christ. And this may actually happen thanks to cloning. The prophecy says the antichrist will first of all kill two witnesses of his appearance. Researchers who decided to clone Christ are highly likely to fall the first victims of the antichrist. And then, the usurper and impostor under the guise of Christ, "the man of sin" will personify the absolute negation of God's commandments and set nations on to deadly fights.

John the Baptist associated coming of an antichrist with the Number of the Beast: " Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast : for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." It was for a long period of time that the rebus was a mystery for people. Some even believed a man would come with the Number of the Beast, 666, written on his head.

Today, researchers suppose that the Number of the Beast may be somehow connected with the genetic code indicated in figures. The number 666 may be the sequence of DNA genetic signals or DNA fragments necessary for successful cloning.

It is a proven fact that the image of a human body on the shroud is not a fake. No significant trace of ink, dye or paint has been discovered on the cloth. What is more, it is not clear how the image in the form of a photographic negative appeared at all.

Physics Doctor John Jackson from the US Air Force Academy and the head of the Shroud of Turin Research Project says the fibers of the image were charred to the depth of 15 micron only and just from one side. He adds that hard X-radiation may produce a similar effect. And it is a great mystery what could probably be the source of such strong radiation two thousand of years ago.

There are many things about the shroud that would prove that it was the burial cloth of Christ, such as a Roman coin over the both eyes minted between 29 to 33 AD. The Wounds are consistent with the Gospel account of Christ's ordeal. A) Crown of thorns. B) Bruising of face. C) Shoulder abrasions D) Knee abrasions E) scourage marks F) nail wounds in hands and feet G) wound in side. H ) Legs not broken !

People who doubt that the shroud is authentic suppose that probably some hoaxer used the Gospel account of Christ' sufferings to draw the image on the shroud. And made some mistakes at that. A hole on one of the palms of the image on the shroud allegedly made with a nail evoked much suspicion. It was thought that crucified people had their wrists nailed otherwise palms were not believed to bear the body weight. An experiment conducted on dead bodies revealed that when palms of dead people were nailed exactly at the spot marked on the shroud of Turin the palms could bear the body weight. This is a spot having particular bones protecting the flesh from tearing and the palms from deformation.

Researcher Alan Adler says not log ago researchers discovered traces of exuding liquid blood material right on the shroud. Doctors learnt about the existence of such liquid only in the 20th century. It proves that even a highly-proficient hoaxer had no notion of such liquid and thus could not paint it on the shroud. So, the cloth actually contacted with a human body.

It is important that the liquid analysis confirmed the human who had been wrapped in the cloth died of dehydration and pain shock. Earlier, experts denied the hypothesis that crucified people inevitably died of asphyxia. An experiment conducted involving volunteers proved that the pose of a crucified man caused no problems to breathing and allowed victims stay alive for several days.

The shroud of Turin is a linen sheet into which Christ was wrapped after being taken from the Cross. The ancient linen cloth 14 ft 3 in. long and 3 ft 7 in. wide is kept with special care in a special metal casket in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist, Turin, Italy. Earlier it was believed that the first record of the shroud dated back to 1354. But a recent research conducted by Ian Wilson confirmed that there were earlier records dating back to 1200. These records mentioned a cloth that by many features resembled the shroud of Turin. At that time, the relic was known as the Holy Cloth of Edessa as it was kept in the Turkish city of Edessa.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: cloning; shroudofturin
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To: Iam1ru1-2
While there is blood on the Shroud (Adler, et al), and it is human blood, the blood is so old that any DNA is far too degraded to successfully clone ANYTHING from it. What DNA has been found are small fragments.

There is another problem as well... the Shroud has been around (for either 700 or 2000 years) and handled by other human beings who left small pieces of themselves through hair, sloughed skin cells, sweat, saliva (it has been kissed frequently), and any other way that a human body can shed DNA... on the shroud. Who is to tell whose DNA the researcher really found.

What this article is is the first of many you will see in the press during the lead up to Easter. You will also see rehashes of discredited theories, absurd TV "documentaries" such as a couple that propose that Leonard Da Vinci created the Shroud 101 years before he was born (or that he replaced the REAL "fake" Lirey shroud with his own, better "fake" Turin Shroud made by photography!) Someone will announce that they have PROVED the Shroud to be a fake because they have made one that "sorta looks like it" and the MSM will fall all over themselves publishing it. It happens every year.

We who DO know the latest research and scholarship about the Shroud of Turin, like Shroudie and myself, will spend a lot of time debunking the bunk.

21 posted on 03/07/2006 11:41:06 PM PST by Swordmaker (Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs.)
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To: Swordmaker

The discussion on FR is often better than the original article, and this is a good example. Thanks, Swordmaker.


22 posted on 03/08/2006 4:01:31 AM PST by donbosco74
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To: Iam1ru1-2
They could probably get a much better sample from the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano.
23 posted on 03/08/2006 4:30:30 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Swordmaker
... a 16th Century PATCH invisibly rewoven into original Shroud linen cloth ...

This statement seems somewhat comical, 'invisibly rewoven'. What does that mean? While I am a true believer and you obviously know more than the average individual about the Shroud, Could you please expand on this statement. That phrase gives me pause to doubt your conclusions.

24 posted on 03/08/2006 4:32:55 AM PST by TexGuy
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To: Iam1ru1-2
Lots of sci fi stories based off of this. Some from the late 60's.

Part of me wonders if there isn't some out there who would think this would be a good idea.
25 posted on 03/08/2006 5:59:20 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Iam1ru1-2
I think we're a long way from cloning, if it's ever going to be possible. They'd need to make sure they have COMPLETE, to the last DNA sequence to know if they're really getting a copy of the original.

So, I'm not sure they CAN clone Him but if they do, then I'd say, Yes it could turn out to be the anti-Christ. The problem is they'd only be cloning the BODY, not the Spirit. The question is whether the cloned body has a soul since it was not conceived in the usual way. If they have a body and it contains no soul, it would have no protection from being inhabited.

26 posted on 03/08/2006 6:18:10 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for that info.


27 posted on 03/08/2006 6:21:09 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Aquinasfan
They could probably get a much better sample from the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano.

I was waiting to see if that was going to be brought up. Or, for that matter, scientists could get the genetic material from the Holy Prepuce itself

28 posted on 03/08/2006 6:34:28 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: TexGuy
This statement seems somewhat comical, 'invisibly rewoven'. What does that mean?

Just exactly what it says. The Shroud was repaired in some damaged areas by a technique called "French Invisible Reweaving". This technique has been seen on other cloth from the 16th Century onward.

The repairer makes a linen thread (in this instance with some telltale Cotton fibers spun into it that do not exist in the original Shroud threads), dyes it to match as closely as possible the color of the original threads, and then very skillfully weaves the new threads into the old, intertwining the old threads with the new.

Photomicrographs of the C-14 text patch clearly show the differing threads... especially since the newer threads have an S twist while all of the original Shroud material is made with yarn with a Z twist (opposite twist). The newer threads have been shown to be chemically different from original threads as well (R. Rodgers, et al) utilizing a Madder Root dye (no dye on Shroud threads), a differing fullering method, and a different bleaching method.

Photographs taken in ultraviolet light show that the area in question where the sample was cut fluoresces differently than does the balance of the cloth (B. Schwarz, et al) indicating that something is different.

Analysis of the one surviving sub-sample from the five that were cut from the single sample for C-14 test shows that the side closest to the left selvege of the Shroud are of the newer material while the material on the side toward the body of the shroud is of the older material. The change-over occurs on a slight diagonal area/line that moves from the right at the bottom (foot end of the Shroud) toward the left edge... with the percentage of New material to Old corresponding to the inexplicable (till now) variation in the test samples ages reported from the three labs. The ages reported from four sub-samples cut from the same sample varied from 1260 (+/-25) to 1390 (+/-25) with the ages of NONE of the samples overlapping the degrees of confidence of any of the others... This should have been a red flag that something was wrong with the samples as all three labs should have been much closer if the sample were homogenous.

The threads are not the same, ergo the C-14 test patch is not the same as the rest of the shroud.

29 posted on 03/08/2006 8:20:30 AM PST by Swordmaker (Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs.)
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To: Iam1ru1-2

Shock....and awe....


30 posted on 03/08/2006 8:23:50 AM PST by auto power
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To: Iam1ru1-2

Well, if complete, clonable DNA were found in the blood on the Shroud, after 2000 years...that WOULD a miracle, wouldn't it?

"Incorruption" is, I believe, the technical theological term for that sort of miracle.


31 posted on 03/08/2006 8:45:46 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: bayourant; Iam1ru1-2
Well according to standard Christian theology the antiChrist has a connection to the devil. Since the Devil is bound here on earth I am not sure how a apce alien could fit the bill.

So-called Space Aliens are simple apparitions of demons. The connection is simple and direct.

32 posted on 03/08/2006 8:46:02 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Iam1ru1-2
Could they possibly clone Jesus

Jesus' twin brother Thomas was neither another Christ nor Antichrist. Cloning wouldn't get them any closer than that.

33 posted on 03/08/2006 9:35:56 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: RightWhale
Jesus' twin brother Thomas

Twin brother?????

34 posted on 03/08/2006 9:46:09 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
So-called Space Aliens are simple apparitions of demons.

WTF??

35 posted on 03/08/2006 9:47:46 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Alex Murphy
I know. I just wanted to inject a slight ignoratio elenchi at this point since the essay did not address some of these points related to cloning.
36 posted on 03/08/2006 9:48:40 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: Alex Murphy

That's what Thomas means BTW. His other, redundant, name was Didymous.


37 posted on 03/08/2006 9:50:39 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: RightWhale
As long as we don't have to revise Matthew 2:11 to show the Wise Men appearing at Mary's door and saying "Oh dear, it looks like we didn't bring enough gifts", I think I'm okay with just backing away from this argument. Slowly, I might add.
38 posted on 03/08/2006 9:57:55 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: Alex Murphy

That's fine with me. Producing a complete clone twin wouldn't produce another Christ since the essence is not physical but spiritual.


39 posted on 03/08/2006 10:04:49 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: steve-b
So-called Space Aliens are simple apparitions of demons.

WTF??

Don't tell me you think space aliens from Alpha Centauri are just dropping in for a visit after coming out of greater than light speed hyperspace bypasses.

Space aliens are a physical impossibility, at least in terms of appearing on earth, because of the vast distances of space.

The apparitions of aliens are either figments of people's imagination, or demonic.

40 posted on 03/08/2006 10:09:05 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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