Posted on 02/21/2006 1:05:58 PM PST by bildabare
A leading cardiologist — who has become convinced of the existence of life after death after hearing his patients’ experiences — is talking about his research and beliefs at a major conference in London in March.
Dr Pim van Lommel was so inspired by the stories related by his patients of their Near Death Experiences (NDEs) that he became the first medical practitioner to risk his reputation with a full, systematic trial into the phenomenon.
He interviewed 344 heart patients at his hospital in Arnhem, Netherlands who had all clinically died, some
(Excerpt) Read more at clickpress.com ...
Since next to nothing is known about the human body- it's as good a theory as any other.
No, it's not as good a theory as any other. There is zero evidence for it...zero. The more reasonable theory, based on what we know of brain anatomy and function, is that the brain is a self-contained organ of the human body, going about its work of keeping the body alive in a myriad of ways.
Holy Tradition says Lazarus (who became the first Bishop of Cyprus) told no tales, never laughed after his resurrection, and only smiled once--upon seeing a man stealing a piece of pottery, he smiled and said, "Clay stealing clay."
But what about the Virgins???
Thanks - looks interesting. I'll read it this evening.
It's a brief article. Clearly, there's still much more to learn about that specific brain region and, of course, about the brain in its entirety.
Well, you don't obviously believe in the concept of a spirit, so yes, that would seem absurd to you. Besides the reception/transmission sites could consist of just a handful of cells, or, several cells could share the function at several sites and multitask. Who knows. The brain is incredibly complex, and 4 dimensional.
The brain is the hardware, the spirit the software. Big deal- a spirit is just a piece of living software-- nothing unbelievable about it- just another piece of technology. Highly advanced, but still just a form of machine/device.
Many years ago there was a doctor who claimed he proved there were souls. Supposedly, he would put scales under a dying person's bed and at the time of death, the scales showed a decrease in weight of about 4 oz. Hence, a soul weighs 4 oz. Whatever.
I don't have an axe to grind one way or another on this subject, but I did see an interesting experiment done about 15 years ago.
There is a common optical illusion that looks like black and white cowhide. If you look at just the right way - you see a bearded face (looks like Jesus). When people are tested on this, the percentage of people who see the face is fairly consistent - 15%. The other 85% only see the cow hide pattern.
They tested several thousand people in Australia, and got the same 15% result.
Then the optical illusion was printed on milk cartons in Denmark for a month with instructions on how to see the face.
The researchers then went back to Australia and tested several thousand different people. This time the face recognition was up to 40%.
The researchers were trying to prove that there is a "universal consciousness" that humans tap into. They say that more people in Australia could see the face because of what happened in Denmark -proving to them that the Australians somehow "picked up" what the Danes were taught.
These proponents say this Universal Consciousness is the reason that humans seem to pick up and learn things all over the world at the same time and its the reason we are so adaptable to new ideas.
They say that thinking that all our consciousness does not take place in our brains - but "somewhere else". They say a perfect example is a primitive seeing and hearing a radio for the first time. The primitive would have trouble grasping that the music was not originating from inside the radio - but the radio was only picking up the sound. They say that when we are looking at the human brain, we are making the same assumption.
Please don't flame me on this - I'm not saying I buy any of this, I'm only relaying what some researchers believe.
bildabare, could you address one of the questions I asked in my initial post: "What physical interaction mediates this transmission and reception?" I presume you're not suggesting that there is a non-physical, spiritual transfer of information taking place, whatever that might mean. By 'physical interaction' I'm referring to what are usually called 'forces', e.g., electromagnetism or gravitation or the weak nuclear force or the strong nuclear force.
Yeah, that's pretty screwy. If you look at a cell under a microscope at the time of death, it just dies. No change in chemistry or what not. Just ceases to live. The Bible teaches that the body without the spirit is dead. A computer without it's software is non-functional. Same difference.
No flames from me. But, of course, there's zero evidence for the existence of Universal Consciousness.
Clinically dead= Limbo or perhaps Purgatory?
What a sad outlook.
If everything happens in the brain, where are the memories? Why can't we decode them?
thetans
Well, I believe that our bodies are simply machines-- earth suits if you will, perfectly suited for this planet, so that our spirits, which have no mass and do not exist in space/time, can express themselves.
So you're talking about a non-physical entity expressing itself through a series of peripherals, (eye working as camera to transmit images to spirit), ears to transmit sound, touch taste, legs to move spirit from place to place, etc.
So, where does the interaction, the interface take place between the physical world and the non-physical? Where does the proto-thought become the thought? Fine question, and I wish I knew the answer to that, but there are so many things we don't know I'll just have to put that on the list.
I heard a woman one day speculating that memory was located in ever cell of the body, but that is nonsense- since your arms and legs can be lost, and your head could basically be kept alive in a dish if blood/oxygen/glucose were supplied to it. So the mechanism is to be found in the brain. Parts of the brain can be removed without causing a seperation of spirit/body, so I imagine it is located in a section outside of those?
As far as I know, no scientist has ever explored this, in a surgical way.
People that get restarted generally aren't brain dead. Generally they're heart dead (heart not beating) but the brain keeps clicking for a while after that (until the lack of fresh oxygen going to the brain because of the heart does enough damage that the brain stops). Brain dead is irreversible, heart dead isn't.
Kind of hard to get volunteers for that kind of experiment.
What a sad outlook.
No, not sad at all. I'm merely saying that we were designed by God, just as we design works of our own. But God uses science to do everything. A spirit isn't magical. Nothing is magical. Every cell of your body is composed of energy, different wavelengths of light-- the basic building block of the universe. Are our bodies machines? Certainly. Most of what and who we are is spirit. But, are our spirits "spiritual", that is, do they have a basis in some sort of law/science? Certainly. A spirit is made or manufactured like any other device. THat's not demeaning. EVerything has to be made of something-- even if that something has no mass, and isn't affected by time/acceleration/gravity. Just a different set of rules/laws apply.
This author is only talking about people who's EEGs have flatlined. No electrical activity taking place in the brain at all. Granted, the equipment has not become necrotic or you're correct, we couldn't get them back. So this is the experimental universe we are limited to.
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