[NYer]

.... just in case.

[Pyro7480]

Catholic bashing commencing in 5...4...3...2...1...

[Uri’el-2012]

Y'shua is speaking:

Revelation 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead,
and behold I am alive for ever and ever!
And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

b'shem Y'shua

[markomalley]

You sure are a glutton for abuse, aren't you?

[bornacatholic]

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/indulgen.htm

[armydoc]

The "fatal contradictions" of purgatory and indulgences:

Assume the Church is correct, that there exists a "temporal punishment" for sins already forgiven that must be paid here on earth or in purgatory. No, I don't accept that, but lets go with it for a minute.

The punishment supposedly "purifies" the person. Why would anyone not want to get the full "purification" afforded by the punishment? If the "merits of Christ and the Saints" can be substituted for punishment, why were they not substituted immediately upon the death of a person, just like Christ substituted his rightousness for our sins at the moment of our belief in him? Why the piecemeal substitution? Finally, why Christ's merit AND the Saint's merit? Does Christ not have enough merit of His own? He needs the Saints to chip in some of theirs??

[Martina]

One of the most wonderful teachings in the Church is the teaching about the "Power of the Keys." The Catechism has an excellent description about indulgences.

[Zetman]

Speaking of Indulgences,

What cracks me up is that some Protestants have told me that Catholic clergy actually instruct the laity NOT to read the Bible. They claim that Catholics don't read the Bible. As someone who went to Catholic Schools for 9 years when growing up, this came as a total surprise to me!! However, after I became an adult, I was shocked to learn that many Protestants are VERY serious and persistent in this belief (or should I say 'mis-belief'??).

Of course there are at least 3 or 4 Bible readings (which change each day) in the Catholic mass, which seems to escape them. In addition, in every Catholic Church I have belonged to, I have always seen Bible studies offered during the week, for those who were interesed in attending.

On top of all of THAT, I look inside the front cover of the New American Catholic Bible I was given as a First Communion gift, and what do I see there? It says that if one sits down and reads the Bible on their own, a partial INDULGENCE is granted. Furthermore, it says that if one continues reading the Bible for more than 30 minutes, a PLENARY INDULGENCE is granted!! Sounds like a good deal to me!! We get an INDULGENCE for doing something that many Protestants claim that only THEY do!!

So, not only do Catholics NOT have to PAY for Indulgences, but they can actually earn them for free - simply by READING THE BIBLE!!

[Zetman]

Another thing that I noticed was that this article states that the Council of Trent outlawed the sale of indulgences. While this is probably true, the article makes it sound as if selling indulgences was allowed by the Church before Trent.

From what I have read, this is not true. The Church has ALWAYS forbidden the sale of indulgences. Indulgences have been sold, but from what I have read, such sales were done in violation of Church rules. Indeed, I recall reading that the Church cracked down on the sale of indulgences on various occasions several centuries before the Council of Trent. The article could have done a better job of clarifying this point, as well as a few others.

The online Catholic encyclodpedia has a really good article (but a bit lengthy) which discusses Indulgences. I am sure many of us have already seen it. For those who have not, and want to take the time to read it, it may clear up some misconceptions about what the Catholic Church believes about Indulgences (I know that it did so with me!!):

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

[Salvation]

Indulgences have never ended as far as I know. I think maybe they grew unpopular, but they have always been there.

[Frank Sheed]

A Primer on Indulgences by James Akins with references from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

[wmfights]

BTTT

[Ex-Wretch]

It has been a very long time since I have replied to anything FR. Nevertheless, just the other day I was considering this very subject and, I wondered.

I wondered that ... if it were true that the roman catholics hold the keys ... then, why don't they loose those in hell from their torment? After all, that would be true love for thy neighbor? That would be doing unto others as you would have them do unto you?

I mean, if they had the power to loose and all ... :)

[bert]

.....Has the Church taken a step backwards?.....

The judgements in America resulting from priestly crimes have to be paid.