[Full Court]

Dave, there is no obvious reason in Scripture to disregard the clear meaning and try and make it obscure, that's my point.

The Bible says Mary and Joseph had sex.

The Bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters.

The Bible says Jesus was the firstborn, meaning other came after.

THere is no reason at all to disregard the clear teaching to try and make the Bible mean something it does not say, unless you are trying to support a false doctrine.

[SoothingDave]

The Bible says Jesus was the firstborn, meaning other came after.

Again, this is the most uneducated of arguments, it is a wonder a more enlightened Protestant doesn't correct you on this.

Have you ever looked at the Old Testament?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The scriptures are plain and decided about the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

"Is not this the carpenter's son?," the Jews asked, "is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are thy not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?" (Matt. 13: 55, 56).

It is evident that the Greek adelphos (brothers/sisters) is used in the case of Jesus' brothers and sisters in the flesh. And before you start there is also no evidence or reason to say that these were Joseph's children by a previous marriage.

The main reason there is controversy over this matter is because of the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

BigMack

[Jaded]

Firstborn does not necessarily mean there were others. If Mary'd had 12 girls and then Jesus, He would still be considered the firstborn. If He'd been the only one ever, He'd still be the firstborn. It's also an important Jewish designation.

[Cronos]

The Bible says Mary and Joseph had sex.

Nope -- it doesn't and we've proved that again and again on this thread.  It doesn't go into such intimate details and you repeating it over and over again wont make it true

The Bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Nope -- it doesn't and we've proved that again and again on this thread.  You repeating it over and over again wont make it true

The Bible says Jesus was the firstborn, meaning other came after.

Nope -- it doesn't mean that, all it means is that Jesus was the first born from Mary, any thing else is pure conjecture.  You repeating it over and over again wont make it true