Vatican official says pope will fix liturgical abuses firmly, gently

Catholic News Service ^ | February 10, 2006 | John Thavis

[NYer]

"Suppose a priest comes at the beginning of Mass and says: 'Good morning, everybody, did your team win last night?' That's not a liturgical greeting. If you can find it in any liturgical book, I'll give you a turkey," Cardinal Arinze said.

Gotta love Arinze .... ROFL!!!

[SaltyJoe]

I'm sure it's way above my station, but it sounds like a huge call to genuine humility (sincere and simple obedience) for all participating in the Sacrament Holy Eucharist. Purification of this is direct preparation for Jesus' return where we'll have polished our posture and etiquette to be in the Presence of the King of Kings.

[Nihil Obstat]

"I do not expect an aggressive correction of abuses. I don't think the pope is going to use the ecclesiastical hammer"

could we borrow it then?

[livius]

LOL!

but the much more basic issues of faith, love of Christ and the appreciation of the importance of Sunday Mass. "If a person has these, many of these other problems would fall into line," he said.

True, but it's much easier to get these things if you have a decent Mass. I think we have a chicken-or-egg situation here.

[livius]

Gee, he must have visited my former parish recently! The pastor even used to mention the score.

[Kenny Bunk]

From time to time, I wind up in an RC Church, and I must say the services are pretty much abominable, IMH liturgical O.

They sound like a South Boston Real Estate Lease drawn up by a particularly illiterate Kennedy. When the RCs were going to English, why didn't they go to English? As in The Book of Common Prayer, which at the moment is way more Catholic than what is going on in Catholic Churches.

BTW, the same guys who dreamed up the services also killed the greatest liturgical music tradition the world has ever known. THose nasal guitar-wankers are lucky they are not strung up on the spot or severely beaten with their own tambourines.

Go, Pope, Baby!!

[wideawake]

In answer to your question, when the Mass went to the vernacular the translation was done by an international committee called ICEL who eschewed literalism and opted for "sensitive language."

The Mass in English, with the exception of the Anglican Use Rite employed by former Anglicans and rooted in the traditional Book of Common Prayer, is utter tripe from an aesthetic standpoint. ICEL chose the least felicitous phrase possible in every circumstance and even resorted to altering the plain meaning of the original Latin in hundreds of instances, resulting in embarrassing (yet I suspect intentional) mistranslation of important doctrinal passages throughout the missal.

[AnAmericanMother]

We're doing our little best here in a small corner of a Southern archdiocese . . . you would love our music.

We had the archdiocesan healing service at our parish on Saturday. Our choirmaster noted that the music provided by the Abp came up a bit short (in several ways - it wasn't the greatest music to start with - but there wasn't nearly enough of it to last through the offertory and communion) so since it was the feast of Our Lady of Lourdes he passed out copies of every Marian chant we know - we sang Ave Maria, Ave Maris Stella, Salve Regina, Alma Redemptoris Mater, and Regina Caeli. And we were ready with the Jacques Arcadelt Ave Maria (polyphonic setting) if we needed more!

[Kenny Bunk]

The Anglican Use Rite employed by former Anglicans and rooted in the traditional Book of Common Prayer ...Ave Maris Stella, Salve Regina, Alma Redemptoris Mater, and Regina Caeli. And we were ready with the Jacques Arcadelt Ave Maria (polyphonic setting)

OK, now we're awake and talking church business. And yeoman work on the music, Ma!

[Carolina]

ICEL chose the least felicitous phrase possible in every circumstance and even resorted to altering the plain meaning of the original Latin in hundreds of instances, resulting in embarrassing (yet I suspect intentional) mistranslation of important doctrinal passages throughout the missal.

This makes me cringe (well, along with a lot of other liturgical innovations) every single time: "And also with you."

It's like the response to "I love you": "You, too."

[Jeff Chandler]

That's not a liturgical greeting. If you can find it in any liturgical book, I'll give you a turkey," Cardinal Arinze said.

[RobbyS]

The Mass in English, with the exception of the Anglican Use Rite employed by former Anglicans and rooted in the traditional Book of Common Prayer, is utter tripe from an aesthetic standpoint. ICEL chose the least felicitous phrase possible in every circumstance and even resorted to altering the plain meaning of the original Latin in hundreds of instances, resulting in embarrassing (yet I suspect intentional) mistranslation of important doctrinal passages throughout the missal.

Not only the ordinary of the mass but the lectionary. These idiots--I use the term in the classical sense of the word--sadd;led us with the worst of all Englisdh translations, Even the Reader's Digest Bible is more eloquent. Totaslly unmemorable language. Five minutes later, even if you try, the words cannot be recalled.

[Jeff Chandler]

THose nasal guitar-wankers are lucky they are not strung up on the spot or severely beaten with their own tambourines.

You are a mind reader.

[NYer]

From time to time, I wind up in an RC Church, and I must say the services are pretty much abominable, IMH liturgical O.

Where do you normally celebrate Sunday liturgy?

[sassbox]

What a great figure of speech! I've never heard it before, perhaps it is a Nigerian idiom?

I'm glad that the Vatican is concerned about the state of the liturgy in so many places. The banality has gone on for far too long and it my personal experience it really contributes to people, especially younger ones, leaving the Church. Lex orandi, lex credendi. I just wish that Arinze would not leave us at the mercy of the bishops' conference. Perhaps he is not aware that some of the big cheeses at the USCCB are responsible for the mess we're in - these bishops are the last people who should have any power over reforming the liturgy.

[Salvation]

You nailed it!

[Fast Ed97]

I'm glad that the Vatican is concerned about the state of the liturgy in so many places. The banality has gone on for far too long and it my personal experience it really contributes to people, especially younger ones, leaving the Church. Lex orandi, lex credendi. I just wish that Arinze would not leave us at the mercy of the bishops' conference. Perhaps he is not aware that some of the big cheeses at the USCCB are responsible for the mess we're in - these bishops are the last people who should have any power over reforming the liturgy.

Rack Em'!

[Desdemona]

BTW, the same guys who dreamed up the services also killed the greatest liturgical music tradition the world has ever known. THose nasal guitar-wankers are lucky they are not strung up on the spot or severely beaten with their own tambourines.

Some of us purposefully went looking for a parish that doesn't use them. And the translations of the original Latin are pretty bad.

My parish, now, is starting up an academy of music and training young people to play the organ. I heard two scholars yesterday at Mass and they were VERY good. That's part of the solution - actually having people who can play organ (and have them compensated for their time and knowledge) that doesn't seem to be gaining much speed.

[Aquinasfan]

'A bruised reed he will not break,'" the cardinal said.

OTOH, NYC was cleaned up by arresting turnstyle jumpers and graffiti "artists." Most of the clergy who engage in liturgical abuses are probably well-meaning, but I don't suspect the same of their intellectual leaders.