Posted on 02/07/2006 1:13:07 PM PST by NYer
Isn't it a much later hour than worrying about bringing down a Bishop? You are saying that in the way that suggests you are worried about an important load bearing timber being compromised. The point is the whole foundation is termite ridden and near collapse because of the far and wide reach of these predators. Many churches will close in the next twenty years. One, because the Faith has been so tarnished by these evil people as to make it difficult for the average person to embrace the faith. Two, because these evil people have made it their business to see to it that the Faith was not taught. Therefore, we are multigenerationally behind the eighth ball. V's wife.
Dear Theo,
In this case, though, we have someone, Fr. Hoatson, who has come forward, openly, and made the charges. He states that he has first-hand experience and evidence to present.
He has actually initiated legal action, meaning that if he continues to move forward, evidence will be taken, testimony given under oath, etc.
Perhaps we might see some progress toward getting to the bottom of this with a few of these bishops.
I, like you, believe that one should be cautious in making accusations against Catholic bishops. I haven't given much credence to folks with second- and third-hand information from hidden accusers who refuse to come forward and plainly state their charges in the light of day.
But here is a man willing to make his charges openly, notoriously, and on the record and under oath.
He is to be taken seriously.
sitetest
Look, going after a bishop is no small affair. This is not Watergate, "Deep Throat" doesn't work in this business. A bishop, regardless of where he's a bishop, is an extraordinary man and to bring one down requires extraordinary proof.
The proofs must be open, transparent, trustable, capable of sustaining any kind of juridical scrutiny and able to convince an skeptic without doubt.
Sub-rosa campaings of hints and allegations do not constitute "proof." Clear statements of witnesses and material proof, as well as when, where, who, how, what, is what's needed here.
If the evidence proves the guilt of the parties in question, let the ax fall where it may--the Lord will take care of the Church. But if the evidence is not strong enough to convict an skeptic beyond a reasonable doubt, better be ready to apologize and do penance.
Bishops are the immediate Successors to the Apostles, in spite of their personal faults--and these may be bad bad BAD, but no matter. Be careful how you bring one down.
There's another thing here and it is THE LANGUAGE OF HATRED. I will not refer to anyone as "Homo this, homo that," even when they may, in fact, be homosexual persons. The key if that they are PERSONS in need of REPENTANCE and HEALING, and in need of our PRAYERS and COMPASSION.
If they lapse into criminal behavior, well then, let them suffer the consequences. If they repent and reform, well then, WELCOME TO THE CHURCH. Afterall, St. Paul was a murderer before he became St. Paul.
All people are entitled to their DIGNITY. If, as some argue, we're to adopt the weapons of our opposition in order to resist them, we might be successful in this life, but in the next one, we'll meet our unrepentant opponents in hell.
I will not win my battles in the culture wars at the expense of my eternal soul. I refuse to do that.
-Theo
So do I, painful as this purification may be for me to behold. Fiat.
All I'm saying that we should not become in the process like our opposition because the moment that happens, they win.
-Theo
There's much truth in what you're saying, sadly, but I also want to emphasize that the CHURCH IS AN OBJECT OF FAITH. Is not a company, is not a voluntary association with assets and liabilities, etc.
We say in the Creed: I BELIEVE IN THE ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. What does that mean? That we're called to believe with perfect certainty, to know, in fact, that the building of the Church WILL NOT FALL.
"The Faith" CAN'T BE TARNISHED. People's perception of the Faith is what is tarnished, and that's bad when it comes from the traditional enemies of the faith, but worse when the tarnished perceptions are those of Catholics.
Even then we can't lose faith. Let's not compromise our joy and our love. Like St. Pío of Pietrelcina said: Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry.
-Theo
Well. I am Catholic and live in Manhattan. I hope this is not true. But God's will be done. And it will be.
"Mary Jo White, whose name carries great credibility..."
...among retarded chimpanzees.
Thank you, Kolo! As mentioned, the future church has been accorded a place on the National Register of Historical Landmarks. That opens a gate to receiving matching state grants for restoration. Please remember Father and this parish in your prayers as we begin the next phase of preparing the application and gathering supporting documentation.
As you all know, our tiny parish celebrated its centennial in December. The eparchial bishop concelebrated the Divine Liturgy on December 4 and Bishop Hubbard was invited to join us. In the 2 years following his enthronement, Maronite Bishop Gregory Mansour has attempted to visit as many parishes within the eparchy as he can. We were most blessed to welcome him twice, the most recent visit being for the centennial. The bishop is called upon to deliver many speeches, testimonials and homilies so you can imagine my great surprise to find the homily he delivered at our parish, as one of only a handful listed on his web site.
It is not only a unique (and most humbling) honor to have our parish recognized in this manner but also a great responsibility to live up to his words. If you have a chance, please take a moment to read his words.
And I will take him seriously, when I hear what he has to say and consider the evidence that he's to present.
We also have to be cognizant of what we are giving up here when a priest sues a bishop successfully in civil court, and invoking the protections and the judgment of the state in internal church affairs: they're opening the doors for the state to deal with the Church as it would deal with ENRON. The Church will become a corporation in the eyes of the state and Canon Law will become no better than bylaws, susceptible to the state's nullification, particularly if priests are to be considered "employees" of their dioceses and not sons of their bishops; the state will see bishops as CEO's of the local branch of the Catholic Church, Inc., and the Church's employment practices will be forced to conform to civil law, including non-discrimination towards people whose moral behavior is irrelevant to the state's sense of equity, but not the Church's.
I'm convinced that when a priest sues a bishop in civil court, the plaintiff is opening the door for the very evils he seeks to avert to invade the Church. I think that the cure will kill the patient.
As bad as the scandal is that priests have molested tens of thousands of children, and bishops contented themselves to play musical chairs with them; as bad as the existence of the "Lavender Mafia," along with its dirty little subculture is, getting the state involved at this level will ensure their long term permanence and the destruction of the Church as the only independent entity able to challenge the culture.
That's what our adversaries WANT and many of us, led by our righteous rage, fail to see that we're playing right into their hands.
I don't want to sound unduly apocalyptic, but MARK MY WORDS: that's what's going to happen if we keep demanding the state's intervention inside the Church, as priests sue their bishops.
There has got to be another way. Doesn't ANYONE SEE IT?
-Theo
You betcha!
-Theo
Rather than pray for a specific outcome (our will), I've learned to pray for God's will, in the resolution of such matters.
The trick in praying for a particular outcome, is that we often don't have all of the facts, or the wisdom to understand the results of what we've asked for.
Hear hear! You have said something very wise and profound. I have stumbled on the same paradox myself in my life of prayer, but could not describe it as well as you've done now. That's exactly right. God bless you!
-Theo
"However, these men are entitled to their good name and reputation "
I disagree. If they are guilty of these things, they are not entitled to a good name.
I'm sure she had a staff, so I'm sure the billable hours included ALL of those folks.
Bless you! It's a shock to the system when we encounter these situations. It defies conprehension! I encountered a similar situation in my (now former) RC parish. The pastor asked me to teach one of the Confirmation classes. The materials used were strictly new age - on the first night of class we were instructed to bring a large rock, enough smooth stones to hand to each student, pillar candles, a boom box, mood music and the last item on the list was a Bible. The DRE then asked for volunteers to perform a liturgical dance on the feast of St. Lucy.
Like you, I fought back and won. But the pastor moved on to more serious abuses. Attending Mass on Sunday became a penitential rite. Most times I kept my eyes closed to avoid seeing the visible abuses but that didn't stop the ears from hearing the audible ones. I tried to enlist other parishioners in addressing these problems. Their reaction was to turn on me. They like our "light in the loafers" pastor and feared having him taken from the parish.
I left there two years ago and found a very orthodox priest. Ironically the former pairsh with its liturgical abuses and 'catholic lite' homilies is growing in leaps and bounds while the small parish priest who serves up orthodox homilies each week is struggling for survival. The truth hurts egos, it seems. No matter, we're working to build the parish up, one parishioner at a time.
God bless you for your continued work at that parish! Rest assured of my prayers for you and your students.
As far as I could tell from that article, Mary Jo White had nothing to do with that particular case, so why would there be any suspicion of her in this one?
"From all that I've ever read about her, Mary Jo White is an upstanding, honest attorney"
I guess you guys missed the first round of discussion of White back when her selection was first announced.
From everything I've ever read about her, her ethics would gag a maggot.
I believe that Benedict XVI will not have the squeamishness about dealing with homosexuality in the priesthood that John Paul II had, as a result of his wartime experiences in Poland. I believe this new Pope will be clear with the Bishops about what is allowed, and what is not.
My point in all of this is that I don't think there are as many homosexuals in the priesthood as some of you do, and though there have been molestations, the Church, as an institution, has had no more than other faith communities, or even schools, it is just more titillating to the media, and they see it as an opportunity to bash the Church, and lessen her influence in the Public Square.
If you were assuming a cover up from the get go, I'm not surprised that's the conclusion you came to after the investigation was done.
It is really ashame the homosexual pedophiles lied, took false vows and used parishioners as a hunting ground.
Those homosexual pedophiles all belong in jail.
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