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Evolution Sunday(liberal churches attack fundamentalism)
email from Clergy Letter Project and Evolution Sunday ^ | unknown | Michael Zimmerman

Posted on 01/31/2006 6:30:30 PM PST by crazyhorse691

Dear Members and Friends of The Clergy Letter Project,

I'm writing to provide an update on The Clergy Letter and on Evolution Sunday. Although we've not been aggressively recruiting new signatures for The Clergy Letter since we reached our goal of 10,000, signatures continue to arrive daily. We are now up to 10,236 (http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/religion_science_collaboration.htm).

Similarly, the number of congregations participating in Evolution Sunday continues to grow nicely. As of this afternoon, 366 congregations representing 48 states and the District of Columbia have signed on. The events are very exciting. Some congregations will be hearing sermons while others will be having lunch discussions. Some will be holding adult education classes while still others will be hosting Sunday school classes for children. It certainly is not too late to have your congregation listed - simply drop me a note telling me that you want to be listed. And please remember that not all events must be on 12 February 2006 -- the bottom of the participant's list includes the following sentence: "Due to scheduling difficulties, some participating churches will be holding their events close to 12 February 2006 but not on that day." Go to http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/rel_evol_sun.htm to see our growing list.

Our resource page (http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/rel_resources.htm) is also expanding due to the efforts of many of you. We now have more than 30 sermons listed as well as more than 25 articles and letters.

I'm very pleased to say that there appears to be growing interest in our activities by the media. I have a number of radio interviews scheduled, including one to be recorded tomorrow with NPR's Interfaith Voices. And the Religion News Service is scheduled to run a story soon. So your efforts are beginning to pay off. Every day more people are hearing the message that religion and science can comfortably coexist. And they are learning that the loud voices of strident fundamentalists are not speaking for all Christian leaders.

Finally, William Brandes, the spouse of a signer of The Clergy Letter, has created banners advertising The Clergy Letter Project that can easily be inserted on web pages. Please take a look at the web site for the First Congregational UCC in Mount Vernon, Ohio (http://www.mvucc.org/index.php) to see what one of his banners looks like. If you like what you see and would like to add a banner to your web site (they cost nothing!), go to http://www.www321.com/CLP/ for simple instructions on how to do so.

Thank you so very much for your support and energy. Please continue to mention The Clergy Letter Project to colleagues and to media contacts. Our impact grows as our number of participants grows!

Michael

p.s. In case anyone wants to see it again, I'm pasting in a press release that you can distribute to local media outlets.

Press Release

For Immediate Release

CONTACT: from th, 920.424.1210, Office of the Dean, College of Letters and Science, University of Wisconsin Oshkosh

Hundreds of Congregations Across the Nation to Celebrate "Evolution Sunday"

The Clergy Letter Project Michael Zimmerman, Founder mz@uwosh.edu Office of the Dean College of Letters and Science University of Wisconsin Oshkosh Oshkosh, WI 54901 920.424.1210

On 12 February 2006 hundreds of Christian churches from all portions of the country and a host of denominations will come together to discuss the compatibility of religion and science.

Now, on the 197th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, many of these leaders will bring this message to their congregations through sermons and/or discussion groups. Together, participating religious leaders will be making the statement that religion and science are not adversaries. And, together, they will be elevating the quality of the national debate on this topic.

"For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science," said Dr. Michael Zimmerman, founder of the project. "As of today we have 366 congregations planning to give talks to disprove this false dichotomy."

The list of participating congregations can be found on the Evolution Sunday (http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/rel_evol_sun.htm) web page. That site also lists more than 30 sermons already delivered by members of The Clergy Letter Project on the topic of the compatibility of religion and science.

As The Clergy Letter (http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/religion_science_collaboration.htm) has demonstrated, Christianity can comfortably embrace evolution. The letter, addressing school boards across the country, concludes by stating: "We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth."

"Evolution Sunday and The Clergy Letter represent a new kind of grassroots effort by members of the Christian leadership in America to reclaim Christianity from those using it for their narrow sectarian advantage," Zimmerman said.


TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: evolutionsunday; religiousleft
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"Evolution Sunday and The Clergy Letter represent a new kind of grassroots effort by members of the Christian leadership in America to reclaim Christianity from those using it for their narrow sectarian advantage," Zimmerman said. ---------------------------------------------------------- This appears to be just another liberal push to close the "values" gap that they finally noticed last election. I almost got sucked into it, but, the email had me check it out further. I most definetly dislike the way the libs are corrupting science and religon. I was set to present a talk from the pulpit of our church on how I had reconciled science and religon, but, I backed out when I realized it was more of the libs reeducation campaign that trys to pass off Jim Walls of Sojurners magazine as a moderate.
1 posted on 01/31/2006 6:30:32 PM PST by crazyhorse691
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To: crazyhorse691

The link takes you to their website as I couldn't find the email there.


2 posted on 01/31/2006 6:33:52 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: crazyhorse691
You want to know how to shut this down?

This guy's web addresses and email are hosted by UW-Oshkosh.

A public school. Separation of church and state, baby. Game, set, match.

3 posted on 01/31/2006 6:36:51 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: AmishDude
This guy's web addresses and email are hosted by UW-Oshkosh.

A public school. Separation of church and state, baby. Game, set, match.


Somehow, somewhere, I thought it was a private university. Maybe that idea came because I know that public schools practice the wall of separation at all times. Silly me.
4 posted on 01/31/2006 6:44:28 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: crazyhorse691
Well, he could be a faculty member who's using his personal website for this stuff, but it can be easily argued that the web address is putting UWOsh's stamp of approval on the effort.

Making the charge would certainly hamper them.

5 posted on 01/31/2006 6:47:59 PM PST by AmishDude
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To: crazyhorse691

Holy Expletive Deleted, if it hadn't been for this, I WOULD HAVE MISSED DARWIN'S 197TH BIRTHDAY!!! Boy, that was a close call.


6 posted on 01/31/2006 6:50:04 PM PST by T'wit (You wonder why there is so little news on Sunday mornings? The leftist news fakers are asleep.)
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To: T'wit

if it hadn't been for this, I WOULD HAVE MISSED DARWIN'S 197TH BIRTHDAY



Charles wouldn't have minded; to paraphrase ol' Charles,"Once you pass your 150th birthday, you just don't want to eat cake no more". He also mumbled something about running out of ice cream flavors, but, it was hard to be sure because he fell asleep.


7 posted on 01/31/2006 6:57:31 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: crazyhorse691

Do you suppose he reproduced successfully before he nodded off? As I understand it, you have to do at least that much or be adjudged an evolutionary failure.


8 posted on 01/31/2006 7:02:54 PM PST by T'wit (You wonder why there is so little news on Sunday mornings? The leftist news fakers are asleep.)
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To: crazyhorse691
That's a lot of seriously deluded people. There is no such thing as being a Christian and an evolutionist at the same time; you have to pick one.

Newt Gingrich once stated the problem of evolutionism and morality about as succinctly as is possible in noting that the question of whether a man views his neighbor as a fellow child of God or as a meat byproduct of random processes simply has to affect human relationships.

Basically, every halfway honest person with any brains and talent who has taken any sort of a hard look at evolution in the past 60 years has given up on it and many have denounced it. A listing of fifty or sixty such statements makes for an overwhelming indictment of that part of the scientific community which goes on trying to defend evolution and evolutionists have a favorite term ("quote mining") which they use to describe that sort of argument.

A reasonable response to that is to note what may be the ultimate evolution quote by the noted evolutionist (actually, FORMER evolutionist) Jeffrey Dahmer:

"If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…"

Jeffrey Dahmer, in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, Nov. 29, 1994.

Dahmer converted to Christianity before he died. The basic tenets of true religion appear to be inprinted upon most of us biologically which is the only reason that Islammic societies and "secular humanist" societies like Britain and Canada function at all. A psychopath like Dahmer is basically somebody on whom that imprint did not take. For those guys, it has to be written down somewhere, and it has to be written down accurately; the bible does that. Telling somebody like Dahmer that we all evolved from "lucky dust" is a formula for getting people killed.

Evolution was the basic philosophical cornerstone of communism, naziism, the various eugenics programs, the out of control arms races which led to WW-I and WW-II, and all of the grief of the last 150 years. Starting from 1913, Europe had gone for a hundred years without a major war. They didn't even have to think. All they needed to do was act cool, go to church, have parades, formal balls, attend board meetings, and they'd still be running the world today; they'd be so fat and happy they'd not know what to do with themselves. Instead, they all got to reading about Darwinism, fang and claw, survival of the fittest and all the rest of that nonsense, and the rest as they say is history.

The most interesting analysis of that sad tale is probably Sir Arthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics"

Keith apparently viewed belief in evolution as some sort of duty of the English educated classes, nonetheless he had a very clear vision of the problems inherent in it and laid it out in no uncertain terms:

From Sir Srthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics:

Chapter 3

The Behavior of Germany Considered from an Evolutionary Point of View in 1942

....It is worth noting that Hitler uses a double designation for his tribal doctrine National Socialism: Socialism standing for the good side of the tribal spirit (that which works within the Reich); aud Nationalism for the ethically vicious part, which dominates policy at and outside the German frontiers.

The leader of Germany is an evolutionist not only in theory, but, as millions know to their cost, in the rigor of its practice. For him the national "front" of Europe is also the evolutionary "front"; he regards himself, and is regarded, as the incarnation of the will of Germany, the purpose of that will being to guide the evolutionary destiny of its people....

... "Humanitarianism is an evil . . . a creeping poison." "The most cruel methods are humane if they give a speedy victory" is Hitler's echo of a maxim attributed to Moltke. Such are the ways of evolution when applied to human affairs.

...I have said nothing about the methods employed by the Nazi leaders to secure tribal unity in Germany methods of brutal compulsion, bloody force, and the concentration camp. Such methods cannot be brought within even a Machiavellian system of ethics, and yet may be justified by their evolutionary result.

12.

....No aspect of Hitler's policy proclaims the antagonism between evolution and ethics so forcibly as his treatment of the Jewish people in Germany.... ...Hitler is an uncompromising evolutionist, and we must seek for an evolutionary explanation if we are to understand his actions....

It must not be thought that in seeking to explain Hitler's actions I am seeking to justify them. The opposite is the case. I have made this brief survey of public policy in modern Germany with a definite object: to show that Dr. Waddington is in error when he seeks to place ethics on a scientific basis by a knowledge of evolutionary tendencies and practice.

Chapter 4

Human Life: Its Purpose or Ultimate End

IN THE COURSE OF GATHERING INFORMATION concerning man's morality and the part it has played and is playing in his evolution, I found it necessary to provide space for slips which were labeled "Life: Its Ultimate and Proximate Purposes." Only those who have devoted some special attention to this matter are aware of the multitude of reasons given for the appearance of man on earth. Here I shall touch on only a few of them; to deal with all would require a big book. The reader may exclaim: Why deal with any of them! What has ultimate purpose got to do with ethics and evolution! Let a man with a clearer head and a nimbler pen than mine reply. He is Edward Carpenter, who wrote Civilization: Its Cause and Cure (1889).

14.

It is from the sixteenth edition (1923) I am to quote, p. 249:

If we have decided what the final purpose or Life of Man is, then we may say that what is good for that purpose i

s finally "good" and what is bad for that purpose is finally "evil."

...If the final purpose of our existence is that which has been and is being worked out under the discipline of evolutionary law, then, although we are quite unconscious of the end result, we ought, as Dr. Waddington has urged, to help on "that which tends to promote the ultimate course of evolution." If we do so, then we have to abandon the hope of ever attaining a universal system of ethics; for, as we have just seen, the ways of national evolution, both in the past and in the present, are cruel, brutal, ruthless, and without mercy. Dr. Waddington has not grasped the implications of Nature's method of evolution, for in his summing up (Nature, 1941, 150, p. 535) he writes "that the ethical principles formulated by Christ . . . are those which have tended towards the further evolution of mankind, and that they will continue to do so." Here a question of the highest interest is raised: the relationship which exists between evolution and Christianity; so important, it seems to me, that I shall devote to it a separate chapter. Meantime let me say that the conclusion I have come to is this:

the law of Christ is incompatible with the law of evolution as far as the law of evolution has worked hitherto. Nay, the two laws are at war with each other; the law of Christ can never prevail until the law of evolution is destroyed.

All of that, of course, deals only with the question of ethics and the logical consequences of evolutionism. The fact that evolution is junk science argues against it as well.

9 posted on 01/31/2006 7:37:26 PM PST by ironwoodchuck
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To: ironwoodchuck; LongElegantLegs; Grannyx4

Ping. Good post.


10 posted on 01/31/2006 7:55:48 PM PST by TapTap (</Judicial Tyranny>)
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To: crazyhorse691
here's the fact, every evolutionist I've spoken to has abandoned the "Scientific method" which is the very basis of science. Science and religion can coexist, and evo is a theory nothing more, and a weakly based one at that. It is supported only by theories based upon fossils that themselves are bathed in theory. These fossils are supposed to be hundreds of thousands of years old when in fact if you trace back population growth charts and do the math on the curve of the growth of population the species dwindles to nothing somewhere between 11000, and 17000 years ago. Also if you look at these fossils, what I see is people, or apes, whichever the case may be with disfigurements. Are disfigured people of today actually steps in the evolutionary process? Then there's the methods of "dating" these fossils, according to the very method upon which science is based, there must be a constant, and a variable to prove a method , and the method could only be proved as far as the constant can be monitored. Now you tell me, was there a scientist around 100000 years ago keeping records on these fossils, or the constants they use to prove these dating methods? I think not, so in essence they have no way to prove age that can be tested any farther back than probably around a couple thousand years, a far cry from hundreds of thousands, or even millions. But then I'm just an ignorant Christian who would rather believe that this world is far to complex and ordered to have been left to chance, and a roll of the dice. And that's just the way I see it :)
11 posted on 01/31/2006 7:58:10 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle.


12 posted on 01/31/2006 8:18:33 PM PST by ChuteTheMall GawdSortaMount (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: TapTap

Gracias por el pin-go; nice Tagline.


13 posted on 01/31/2006 8:21:15 PM PST by LongElegantLegs (Puppymillalicious!)
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To: crazyhorse691
Evolution Sunday...liberal churches attack fundamentalism

They're wasting their time. "Fundamentalist" churches are growing by leaps and bounds, all over the world. Liberal churches, without exception, are demographically dying. Survival of the Fittest, bwahahahaha.

14 posted on 01/31/2006 9:16:08 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: Rytwyng
For far too long, strident voices, in the name of Christianity science, have been claiming that people must choose between religion and modern science...we have 366 congregations planning to give talks to disprove this false dichotomy.

Good luck. The way they approach it is to affirm evolution as compatible with faith. That convinces nobody. If they want to reconcile science and faith without doing violence to eitherm, they'd do better to talk to Dr. Hugh Ross.

15 posted on 01/31/2006 9:25:31 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: T'wit

Do you suppose he reproduced successfully before he nodded off?



It's one of the ironies of science that Charlie married his first cousin and almost all of their children died before childbirth or survived just a small length of time. I think a couple of daughters survived their childhood. I don't believe that any survived to die of old age.


16 posted on 02/01/2006 12:42:22 AM PST by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: PatrickHenry

FYI


17 posted on 02/01/2006 1:35:15 AM PST by dread78645 (Intelligent Design. It causes people to misspeak)
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To: crazyhorse691
It's one of the ironies of science that Charlie married his first cousin and almost all of their children died before childbirth or survived just a small length of time. I think a couple of daughters survived their childhood. I don't believe that any survived to die of old age.

And you'd be wrong.

William Erasmus Darwin (27 December 1839 - 1914)
Henrietta Emma Darwin (25 September 1843 - 1929)
George Howard Darwin (1845-1912)
Elizabeth "Bessy" Darwin (8 July 1847–1926)
Leonard Darwin (1850-1943)
Francis Darwin (1848-1925)
Horace Darwin (1851-1928)

Mary Eleanor died as a baby, Charles Waring died from scarlet fever at age 2, and Anne Elizabeth died of tuberculosis at age ten.

18 posted on 02/01/2006 1:53:22 AM PST by dread78645 (Intelligent Design. It causes people to misspeak)
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To: dread78645; Junior

Thanks. Nothing wrong with the article, but it's definitely started off as the wrong kind of thread. I think I'll pass.


19 posted on 02/01/2006 3:23:25 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: crazyhorse691
It's one of the ironies of science that Charlie married his first cousin and almost all of their children died before childbirth or survived just a small length of time. I think a couple of daughters survived their childhood. I don't believe that any survived to die of old age.

Your belief is founded in the lies of Fundamentalists.

The Children of Charles & Emma Darwin

10 chilren, 3 died in infancy, the others survived to 67, 70s, 80s, 93.

20 posted on 02/01/2006 4:47:41 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pascal)
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