Posted on 01/16/2006 11:59:31 PM PST by NYer
ROME, JAN. 16, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Is faith necessary for salvation?
Ilaria Morali, a professor of theology at the Gregorian University, and a specialist in the subject of grace, responds to this question in Part 2 of this interview with ZENIT.
The interview took place with an eye toward understanding better Benedict XVI's address at the general audience of Nov. 30, during which he spoke about the possibility of salvation for non-Christians.
Part 1 of this interview appeared Sunday.
Q: Since the Second Vatican Council, what has been the Catholic view of nonbelievers?
Morali: The question offers me the occasion to touch upon one of the aspects the Pope has commented upon regarding the "spark" harbored by those who do not have biblical faith.
Vatican II places among the latter both people belonging to other religions as well as people who are specifically nonbelievers. They are two profoundly different groups, but united by the fact that they do not have the faith of Christ. The former cultivate some form of religious belief; the latter affirm that they do not have faith.
In No. 16 of the dogmatic constitution "Lumen Gentium," the Council, recalling the principle of the universal saving will of God, affirmed that those who seek God with sincerity, and make an effort under the influence of grace to do his will with works, known by the dictate of conscience, may obtain eternal salvation.
This affirmation reflects indirectly the teaching of Pius IX, but it emphasizes an aspect not considered until now: that of grace. The search for the good, the determination and the will to carry it out are effects of the action of grace.
Moreover, the Council added, almost to stress this principle, "Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."
According to the Council, no effort can take place "without grace." That means that God is also close to those who do not know him. This same teaching is found in the pastoral constitution "Gaudium et Spes," where in No. 22 the Council acknowledges that grace works in the hearts of all men of good will.
The people to whom the Holy Father refers are, in a certain sense, the same as those of whom the Council spoke. However, some one might object that the Council, in No. 7 of the decree "Ad Gentes" on missionary activity, underlines the principle of the necessity of faith for salvation, in addition to the need of baptism and of the Church.
It might also be underlined that in this number Vatican II affirms that "those cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it."
According to Catholic doctrine, faith of course, is necessary for salvation. This principle, sanctioned in the Letter to the Hebrews 11:6 has been accepted by the Christian tradition since its beginning. And here, in this context, it is proposed again in a clear way.
Q: And who does not have a complete faith?
Morali: Christian tradition itself acknowledges that not all have received the gift of the fullness of faith and that there can also be very imperfect forms of faith.
In the chapter on faith, the Roman Catechism, which was composed after the Council of Trent, acknowledges that there are different degrees of faith: There are those who have a great faith and others who have a fragile faith.
It takes this teaching from the Gospel, in reference to the many words that Jesus Christ pronounced on the faith of his disciples, of the people with whom he met.
However, we cannot pause on this first part of the Council's reflection proposed in No. 7 of the decree "Ad Gentes" on the necessity of faith, but we must also read what follows: "Though God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please him, yet a necessity lies upon the Church, and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel."
This means that God has his ways to lead men to faith and we certainly cannot penetrate in the inscrutable divine action in the hearts of men. In its complexity, the teaching of "Ad Gentes" helps us to understand two principles.
First, that it is not possible to be saved without faith. As history teaches us, men have certainly existed and will exist who consciously deny God, staining themselves with atrocious faults. They will have to answer before God for having exiled and excluded him from their lives, converting that of others into a hell. It is an inescapable fact that there is no salvation for these.
Second, there are many more people who, even stating that they are not believers, will obtain eternal salvation. These are people who give Christians an extraordinary example of generosity and rectitude. If I accept the conciliar teaching, then, for me, who am a believer, the good that they do is already the effect of grace that works in a hidden way in them and I must pray that this grace will one day give them the possibility of being led to an explicit faith.
Moreover, I must admit that in this invisible work of grace, God leads them to faith in an absolutely mysterious way.
Q: Is it necessary to let grace act on its own in those people in whom it acts in a hidden way?
Morali: That does not mean that, as a Christian, I must not do everything possible so that this grace that acts in a hidden way in these people of good will might attain to fullness, though it might not always achieve this. My witness and my prayer are a support to the divine work, but God has his times and his designs.
Speaking again of the "spark" of which the Pope spoke in his address, I would like to recall an affirmation of Tertullian: "alma naturaliter Christiana" [the soul is naturally Christian]. He said this referring to people who lacked education in the faith, but who experienced inklings of faith.
Tertullian's expression has entered the reflection on faith of those who seem not to have faith, as it reflects the longing, in the depth of every man, to know God.
This longing is inscribed in a person's heart and, as Henri de Lubac would say, is the proof that we are created in the image of God and that this image is as an indelible sign. Man longs for Jesus Christ because he bears the image of God in his heart, and the image of God is Jesus Christ.
Tertullian also says that "fiunt no nascuntur christiani," which means: "Christians are not born, but made." It means that this longing needs to be corresponded by knowledge of God and this knowledge only Jesus Christ can give.
The longing of the heart for fullness is not enough; one must come to this fullness in fact. Thus is understood the importance of the evangelizing work of the Church, called to lead men to that fullness that is realized with baptism and perfected throughout a Christian's life.
OoooooooooooK.....
It's now confirmed one doesn't have to be a believer to obtained salvation. In fact, people can emphatically state they are NOT believers and still be saved. Incredibly the author quotes all sorts of Catholic papers but never the scripture. Perhaps this is the true error.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:14-18 KJV)
Quote: "Incredibly the author quotes all sorts of Catholic papers but never the scripture. Perhaps this is the true error."
Roman Catholicism has two sources of authority: Scripture and Tradition. Thus, the lack of Biblical references is no problem for the RC.
Ishmael was a good Muslim, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. (Apostasy 13:13)
These days it's more tradition than scripture.
LOL!!!
And all to serve to further the cause of ridicule. Good job. Rest well.
SD
Your interpretation is welcomed.
Which source is considered the "higher" authority? It seems in this case that Tradition is contradicted by (but nonetheless trumps?) Scripture. Still, this should be read as a University Professor's attempts to interpret Benedict XVI's Nov 30th address within the context of various earlier doctrinal pronouncements, and not explicitly as the words of BXVI himself.
Well, you could begin with:
First, that it is not possible to be saved without faith.
Unfortunately, this negates the hilarious point you were trying to make, so I don't blame you for pretending not to remember you read it.
I realize it's harder to read for comprehension rather than ammunition, but shouldn't you honestly try to understand, rather than just ridicule?
"Though God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please him, yet a necessity lies upon the Church, and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel."
This means that God does what He likes (isn't that a Calvin idea?). And if He is in the process of leading one into faith, but that one has not yet intellectually grasped the Gospel, is he not saved? Would you say God is sovereign in choosing whom to save except He can not save anyone unless they have a certain intellectual understanding and knowledge?
SD
I rather wish sola scriptural folks would emphatically obey 1 Corinthians 14:34. It'd silence at least half of them.
But then their emphatically and equally obedient husbands would make their wives' concerns known to you. You might have to deal with half the number of voices, but you'd be faced with an equal number of concerns.
And if He is in the process of leading one into faith, but that one has not yet intellectually grasped the Gospel, is he not saved?
God is fully capable of leading one into faith AND giving that person the knowledge and understanding. IF a person does not demonstrate both they are not saved.
I have been told many times by my Catholic brethren that faith without works is dead. Now I'm being told that works without faith is life. This is beyond goofiness if you ask me.
Well firstly a lot of pastors would have to give the pulpit over to their husbands. That aside the lessened number of voices would make things a lot more organized, halving the number of folks talking.
"But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter."
Apparently there is, as you continue to ignore the words written and focus narrowly on one sentence out of an entire article. Perhaps the words being used don't mean what you think they do?
"Second, there are many more people who, even stating that they are not believers, will obtain eternal salvation."
Yep, that's the one sentence. What troubles you about this? Do you think intellectual knowedge about the faith is instantaneous and automatic? Or does it requre learning and teaching?
It seems, to me, to be completely within reason that someone who is "saved" could be in the larval stages of their development as a believer. God could be dwelling within and the person could not have come to the realization of this fact.
Perhaps you think that is impossible. But I don't. So someone in the initial stages of being moved by God, toward God may deny intellecutally that they have a "faith." But deep inside, they do because that is what God wants.
If God gives a person His grace to instill faith, then that person will know our Lord Jesus as Savior. I would simply point you to John the Baptist who leaped inside the womb when he was in the presence of Lord Jesus before He was born. He knew the truth.
See this makes me think we aren't using the same words to mean the same thing. If you asked fetal John the Baptist if he was a believer in Christ, what would he have said? If you asked him what the name of the Savior was, what would he have said?
Nothing. Fetuses can't talk. Neither can infants. I agree that he had faith inside him, a gift from God. But I deny that he would claim he was a believer in the substitutional atonement of Jesus because he lacked the capacity and knowledge to say those things.
Get it yet?
Have you ever heard people's conversion stories where they may have spent years avoiding confronting God, pretending that He wasn't calling, denying that they needed Him? Well, was God working in them, leading them to a faith that they had not yet intellectually accepted?
God is fully capable of leading one into faith AND giving that person the knowledge and understanding. IF a person does not demonstrate both they are not saved.
When did you cease being a Calvinist? Aren't those who are saved, saved from the moment of Creation? If someone is going to be saved in the end, they must have been elected before the universe began. There is never a time when they were not saved. Isn't that what you believe?
So, it is entirely possible for God's inner tugging to precede the brain accepting faith.
I think the problem here is that you mean something different by "faith" then we do. And that you are reading looking for faults instead of reading what is being said.
SD
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