Posted on 01/16/2006 7:05:53 AM PST by Huber
I wonder if you intended to post this in the Religion forum, rather than here, in News/Activism.
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. Thank you. My error!
My church is not into compromise on our doctrines for some kind of unity, so Sunday our sermon was on the anniversary of Roe Vs Wade and the person hood of the unborn.
There is no more important moral issue for our society than abortion, but it would be unfortunate to dismiss progress toward Christian unity. Compromise of doctrine should only occur when doctrine is shown to be insufficient through revelation or inspiration. In the interim the point of dialog between Christian denominations is to strengthen our community and lead to better understanding of Biblical Truth.
As an evangelic and Calvinist I have little use for the ecumenical movement. Phase one seemed to be to merge our doctrines and return to a pre reformation position and even include those that deny the nicene creed like univeralists and unitarians , phase 2 , now in effect in our area includes those that deny Christ in the mix like Hindus and Muslims with whom we absolutely no fellowship .
I have no issue with sharing actions on major social issues with others that affirm Christ. But you will find few Calvinists or evangelicals that will return to Catholic doctrines or share "worship" with those that have other gods .
Sigh... You Calvinists are nothing if not strident.
Strident , interesting word. How willing are you to change your doctrine of purgatory, real presence and salvation by faith and works in the name of unity?
Of interest, in the "Can't we all just get along" sort of way.
"The problem is that we might not like what we hear. For the Lord calls us all outside of our comfort zones, to reach out to others, and speak the truth in love to others, as uncomfortable as that may be."
Abortion will never be solved until Christians get their doctrinal act together. If we do not speak right about God why do you think He will bother to bless us? If 50% of the people in churches are having abortions do you honestly think this makes the church a credible witness?
Strident indeed!
Let's go beyond the strawman arguments. 50% of Americans voted for Algore, but this does not mean that Americans as a group are environmentalist wackos. If you wish to debate the RC catechism, that's fine, but those who sin and are in conflict with the teaching of the church should not be taken to represent the church or its teaching.
First, please accept my complements on your use of Latin in your tag line, although I am not certain that the Council at Nicea actually used the term "sola scriptura". Second, I am Anglican, not RC, so some of the doctrines you listed are NA. Third, in answer to your question, I would sacrifice false doctrine for the truth. We have wonderful discussions with our Calvinist friends, and have come to a deeper understanding of many areas of scripture as a result. However in other areas, Calvin seems to be overreaching and reactionary, and we are unconvinced on these points.
This isn't a strawman's argument. People somehow feel that God favors Christians and really want the very best for us. The Jews during Jeremiah's time felt the same way. If we want God's help we should look to our churches first. Paul didn't lead the Corinthians in social causes nor did Elijah tell the priest of Baal that their faith in Baal was the same as faith in God.
If we can't clean up our churches how the heck do we suppose sinners will every be stopped. In fact, if every single "Christian" in church were to vote against abortion then abortion would be abolished. As Barry McGuire aptly put it in one of his songs...
"We have million dollar churches and no one's on their knees."
I believe that these quotes from Pope Benedict XVI reflect Catholic teaching. Wouldn't even a Calvinist find common ground for ecumenism on the basis of teaching such as this?
"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. There may be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not... with regard to abortion and euthanasia."
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church is often labeled today as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, look like the only attitude acceptable to today's standards."
"The wrath of God is a way of saying that I have been living in a way that is contrary to the love that is God. Anyone who begins to live and grow away from God, who lives away from what is good, is turning his life toward wrath."
"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires."
Ahhh But I will not sacrifice truth for an untruth, that is what the ecumenical movement requires of us.
You know of course the roots of the Anglican Church are Calvinist.Indeed, some list the Anglican 39 Articles as descending from Calvin's work.
from those articles :
VI. Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation. Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church.
This sounds like sola scriptura to me Nicea or not :)
Actually the roots are somewhat bipolar, alternating between Catholic and Swiss influences with a few burnings at the stake in between!
Your 39 articles affirm Calvinism ...
Ecumenicalism is simply a sham to lead us into a social gospel. It takes our worship of God and reduces it down to the lowest common denominator-or worst. We are willing to "partner" with others of all sorts of beliefs (some not even Christian) to try to affect some type of cause "for God". Excuse me but whatever happened to praying to God that He would bring about change?
The church was never called to fight abortion, alcohol, poverty, the death penalty, etc. The church's Great Commission is to preach the gospel. This doesn't mean we shouldn't be involved in moral issues. James rightfully tells us what good is preaching the gospel if those your preaching to are hungry so as a side issue we are to feed the poor. But that shouldn't distract for our main objective-preach the gospel.
We have simply lost our first love.
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