Posted on 01/16/2006 12:59:35 AM PST by Gamecock
So you endorse the Racetrack analogy?
The "very well respected" preachers get a free pass on every thing they say or do?
So what was the causitive action of him being a man after God's own heart?
Didn't say I agree with everything chuck Smith preaches or writes. He's human, but for the most part, he is a very solid Bible teacher. Not every message works or properly applies scripture. the problem with Hendryk's is that he tends to pick out something and make it sound like everything a non-Hyper-Clavinist writes is heresy. That's just not the case.
It would not surprise me if I learned that Chuck Smith has some trusted individuals who told him that this particular analogy was not a good one.
In reading the definitions or descriptions of hyper-Calvinism by many sound Calvinist writers, Hendryx clearly falls into that category.
You might want to consider the possibility that when I don't refer to a Calvinist as a hyper-calvinist it's because I don't think they are. Spurgeon was certainly no hyper-Calvinists and I know a few theology professors at Calvinist seminaries who most assuredly are not hyper-Calvinists.
This statement is B.S. When someone says "I accepted Christ" at a particular time, they are merely identify the time when they became a child of God by accepting Christ as their Savior. It is disingenuous to read anything else into such a comment.
But the reality of the matter is that God accepted us. We were a loathsome stench in His nostrils but the blood of Christ made us clean and a sweet aroma to Him so that He might have fellowship with us. So perhaps we should try to be more biblical when conversing about salvation by speaking of it in a more God-centered manner.
The reality is that God first loved us. When a person responds to the Gospel message and accepts Christ as their Savior, they become a part of the family of God. how much more god centered can it get?
Without being legalistic about this, for instance, instead of "I accepted Christ ten years ago " perhaps it would be more effective to listeners to be speaking like this: When God called me to faith in Christ; When God opened the eyes of my faith or understanding (as he did Lydia in Acts). When God turned my heart of stone into a heart of flesh; When God turned me from darkness to light; When God made me alive in Christ. --- The work of salvation is the work of the Trinity: God the Father elects us, Jesus the Son, purchases our redemption (those the Father has "given Him.") (John 6:37,39) and the Holy Spirit applies the benefits of Christ's redemption to the same.
This is great. Hendryx says "Without being legalistic..." and then gets legalistic. The fact that he even qualifies his following comments indirectly acknowledges he is being legalistic.
I should hope so. Preachers are human and are prone to making mistakes and sinning, just like the rest of us. But, every preacher I have ever known who makes such a mistake will correct it if he's been rebuked. Even Joel Osteen withdrew his heratical statement on Salvation. Onced he repented, IMHO, using his statement against him is out of bounds. Likewise, I have asked for some of my own posts to be withdrawn if someone (Arminian, Calvinist, Romanist or Pagan) on this board has pointed out to me that it is blatantly wrong.
The statement in question is still on Smith's web site, which indicates to me he stands by the analogy. That makes it fair game.
The useage of one bad illustration may not be cause to delete an entire message, but maybe it is.
Since God makes it plain that not all will be saved then His purposes can be thwarted? Who wants to belong to a God who isn't powerful enough to do what He purposes?
Then like the Mormons do you believe that we are eternal beings? There has never been a "time" that we haven't existed in the mind of God?
I disagree with your definition. But if I accepted it then I would be thankful that God saw fit to "reprogram" and "compel" me to salvation than to leave me dead in my sin.
Do you believe it's reasonable or just for God to command men to do something and then graciously grant the obedience to that command to whom He chooses?
Why do YOU feel the NEED to twist things? Is that the way you are? You love someone so you COMMAND them to do something? Your mind is so twisted that you can't imagine someone loving you so much to die for you to save you from eternal damnation? You're clueless when it comes to perfect love. God doesn't COMMAND, He invites.
However, your employer WILL command you to do something - tell him/her that you don't think it's reasonable or just. Your 'love of a paycheck' will submit you to obedience.
Lastly, who do YOU think you are to question ANYTHING about The Almightly? You are merely a mortal man with a sinful nature. Fear of The Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
There will be children born next year who are not yet conceived.
Does my knowing that bring them into existence now???
I'm puzzled by your question because I know you know what I believe. Is there a real angle to it, or are you just bear-baiting with me? :>)
Let's say that you go to church this week and pray for young people to be saved and for your church to grow.
1. Can God answer that prayer?
2. How can God answer that prayer without knowing what happens or affecting what happens?
Since God makes it plain that not all will be saved then His purposes can be thwarted? Who wants to belong to a God who isn't powerful enough to do what He purposes?
Say you are planning a great party, no expense spared and you have reason to believe this one or that one may not be able to attend but you desire all to be there because you love them. Then someone tells you, I hear someone isn't coming to your party and you invited them. Well, I'm not going to a party given by you, the host, because your purpose was thwarted and what a looser you are.
Just bringing it down to your level so you have some idea how your reasoning sounds.
I'm in amazement at how mortal men with their little minds can question The Almighty. You are way too puffed up. Let's put it this way, you couldn't take your next breath without the mercy of God. How's that for 'isn't powerful enough'? That will take your 'puff' away.
That's why hell was created for those who don't want to belong to Him. Satan was puffed up, he felt he was better than His Creator. We all get what we search after.
Do you believe it's reasonable of just for God to command men to do something and then graciously grant the obedience to that command to whom He chooses? Why or why not?
It seems to me you are the one questioning God's purpose of election; trying to explain them away with man-made terms like "respecter of persons." Everyone is under God's rule. Pagans deny it, but they are nonetheless under his rule.
Everyone knows about your hang-ups with your former denomination, but why drag the Hyper-Clavinists into the discussion?
Does my knowing that bring them into existence now???
Do you know them individually by name? Do you know the intimate details of their personalities and what will happen in their lives?
No, you don't. You know there will be some vague number of babies born and that's it.
God knows US.
You are claiming that there has never been a "time" (used very loosely with respect to eternity) when God hasn't had YOU or ME in His thoughts.
I am claiming that He knew US when He contemplated making this Creation.
........um.....now why were we talking about this again? :scratch:
LOL.
I had to go check, too. Nope, I'm not a Mormon and there is no preexistence. Just because God knows OF me does not mean that I have already come into existence.
Morning, xsins.
1. I'm convinced God answers prayers, based upon belief and upon actual experience.
2. I can't pretend to know how exactly God goes about answering prayers, or even which prayers He answers exactly with the outcome for which we prayed. I just don't know. I believe He is perfectly just in the way He does answer. But more specifically to your question, if free will is to have any meaning (and I'm convinced it does), then I doubt I could ask God to abrogate another's free will. For example, if I pray for a troubled relative, I don't think I could "pray away" that person's responsiblity to voluntarily accept salvation.
And that's about all I can say before a few more cups of coffee. :-) Have a good one!
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