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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; annalex; jo kus; Cronos; HarleyD

" Except that is follows, not preceeds our salvation."

I didn't get the impression that FK was puting theosis before all of this, rather that he was putting it afterwards, as the end result. Remember, FK uses the word salvation differently than we do, Kosta. If in fact FK, you mean to put theosis at the beginnig of this process, in other words, that an individual has become somehow completely like Christ and is dead to the self before this process of sanctification, then I would say that you've got it exactly backwards. But I get the impression you're not saying that at all.


2,394 posted on 02/08/2006 4:28:51 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; annalex
Remember, FK uses the word salvation differently than we do, Kosta

I do, Kolo, but if you think about it salvation is healing. We are not healed instantly. I think even Forest Keeper will admit to that. Yet he said that being "saved" to him is an "instant". That instant is when they (Protestants) accept Chrust as their Savior (please not that this an an oxymoron -- they don't believe that we do anything but rather that God does everything, so "accepting" Christ is not really a man's prerogative in their mindset, yet they use a free-will term and don't even realize their own grave contradiction).

More importantly, there is a difference between healing and being healed, saving and being saved. Annalex doesn't think it is a matter of proper tense, but proper tense has a lot to do with our mindset and the proper tense is the starting point where you will either continue thinking correctly, or go off track.

Healing is analogous to cleansing -- and healed is analogous to having been cleansed of all disease, impurity, etc. So, here we have a serious conceptual disagreement which can not be relativized as a matter of taste or semantics.

Healing has to precede being healed. Being healed is not an instant, but the end of a process of healing.

2,399 posted on 02/08/2006 4:49:43 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; HarleyD; annalex
I didn't get the impression that FK was putting theosis before all of this, rather that he was putting it afterwords, as the end result. Remember, FK uses the word salvation differently than we do, Kosta. If in fact FK, you mean to put theosis at the beginning of this process, in other words, that an individual has become somehow completely like Christ and is dead to the self before this process of sanctification, then I would say that you've got it exactly backwards. But I get the impression you're not saying that at all.

I think your characterization of what I'm saying is very accurate, Kolo, AND, I think I know where Kosta is coming from in his objection. From what I have learned about theosis, I would put that at the end of our life-long sanctification process. When I said my sinner's prayer, I was not mature or whole or fully Christ-like, or any of those types of things. Sanctification brings us toward that goal.

AND, in the same breath I say that at the sinner's prayer I was "saved". So, if I had died the day after saying the prayer, with no sanctification, I'm still in. Or, if years later I raised my fist and cursed God defiantly and on a permanent basis, then my sinner's prayer was false and I was never saved in the first place. (Based on what I know now, I don't worry that this is a possibility because of God's promises.)

I have been saying that salvation is a one time event, WITH future included actions that are certain to occur. Not to be too legalistic, but I believe that these future included actions are both a "guarantee" by God through scripture, and a "guaranty" by God's authority. Jesus clearly teaches us what the saved man looks like. God will ensure that all of His elect look like that.

2,502 posted on 02/11/2006 1:12:59 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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