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To: Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; annalex
Remember, FK uses the word salvation differently than we do, Kosta

I do, Kolo, but if you think about it salvation is healing. We are not healed instantly. I think even Forest Keeper will admit to that. Yet he said that being "saved" to him is an "instant". That instant is when they (Protestants) accept Chrust as their Savior (please not that this an an oxymoron -- they don't believe that we do anything but rather that God does everything, so "accepting" Christ is not really a man's prerogative in their mindset, yet they use a free-will term and don't even realize their own grave contradiction).

More importantly, there is a difference between healing and being healed, saving and being saved. Annalex doesn't think it is a matter of proper tense, but proper tense has a lot to do with our mindset and the proper tense is the starting point where you will either continue thinking correctly, or go off track.

Healing is analogous to cleansing -- and healed is analogous to having been cleansed of all disease, impurity, etc. So, here we have a serious conceptual disagreement which can not be relativized as a matter of taste or semantics.

Healing has to precede being healed. Being healed is not an instant, but the end of a process of healing.

2,399 posted on 02/08/2006 4:49:43 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; annalex

" More importantly, there is a difference between healing and being healed, saving and being saved. Annalex doesn't think it is a matter of proper tense, but proper tense has a lot to do with our mindset and the proper tense is the starting point where you will either continue thinking correctly, or go off track."

The distinction is a crucial one. As we all know, the Fathers often spoke of The Church as a hospital for the soul and indeed it is, a place where healing "can" take place. One of the 5th century Fathers, a Holy Abbot by the name of Martyrius, wrote this as an instruction for his monks:

"Just as the body that benefits from clean air will acquire good health and will be kept pure, so too the soul that enjoys the divine words - as it were, God's wind - will be restored to health and rejuvenated in purity, and made holy. Its eye will be illumined so that it can gaze all the time on God. Just as is the case with the body's eye, provided it is open and clear, it never ceases to have its fill; so too it is with the illumined *eye* of the mind: provided it is straightforward and pure, it is occupied with spiritual vision; and when it is opened so as to peer into the mysteries of divine knowledge and into the world above, it will become even more illumined and purified, thus enabled to approach the essential light of the divinity that exists above the world."


2,402 posted on 02/08/2006 5:06:41 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50
Annalex doesn't think it is a matter of proper tense

Why, of course the tense matters. What I am saying is that boh past and present tense in employed, but when the present tense is employed it is not clear from the Greek (or English) if it is continuous mood ("you are being saved") or past perfect ("you have been saved"). English has grammatical categories that patristic Greek doesn't have, so the translator ends up with non-specific "you are saved".

2,408 posted on 02/08/2006 5:29:46 PM PST by annalex
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