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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; HarleyD; annalex
I didn't get the impression that FK was putting theosis before all of this, rather that he was putting it afterwords, as the end result. Remember, FK uses the word salvation differently than we do, Kosta. If in fact FK, you mean to put theosis at the beginning of this process, in other words, that an individual has become somehow completely like Christ and is dead to the self before this process of sanctification, then I would say that you've got it exactly backwards. But I get the impression you're not saying that at all.

I think your characterization of what I'm saying is very accurate, Kolo, AND, I think I know where Kosta is coming from in his objection. From what I have learned about theosis, I would put that at the end of our life-long sanctification process. When I said my sinner's prayer, I was not mature or whole or fully Christ-like, or any of those types of things. Sanctification brings us toward that goal.

AND, in the same breath I say that at the sinner's prayer I was "saved". So, if I had died the day after saying the prayer, with no sanctification, I'm still in. Or, if years later I raised my fist and cursed God defiantly and on a permanent basis, then my sinner's prayer was false and I was never saved in the first place. (Based on what I know now, I don't worry that this is a possibility because of God's promises.)

I have been saying that salvation is a one time event, WITH future included actions that are certain to occur. Not to be too legalistic, but I believe that these future included actions are both a "guarantee" by God through scripture, and a "guaranty" by God's authority. Jesus clearly teaches us what the saved man looks like. God will ensure that all of His elect look like that.

2,502 posted on 02/11/2006 1:12:59 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; annalex; jo kus; Cronos
Or, if years later I raised my fist and cursed God defiantly and on a permanent basis, then my sinner's prayer was false and I was never saved in the first place

So, now we are introducing yet another twist to theology, according to FK, that has heretofore not been mentioned – on a permanent basis. I won't go into what "permanent" means, maybe we can discuss that on another thread.

But, I suppose, you can raise your fist and curse God every now and then and still be saved? Is that what it means?

However, you still fail to tell me who is doing all this – your will or God's will. If it is God's will, as I would imagine you will say, then why worry about it? Right? You are doing God's will either way, correct?

Since God is just, then your damnation from all eternity is just as well. It makes no difference in your theology whether you accept Jesus Chirst as your Savior (the "accept" here is only illusiory anyway, since it is God who makes the decision whether you will accept Christ or not): you are doing God's will either way and are therefore always obedient to God (there is no choice in this at all according to your theology), even if you are enslaved by sin (again, only if God wants you to be enslaved by sin!).

So, even if you shake your fist at God, "on a permanent basis" instead of pray sinner's prayer (why pray, God does not change His mind!?), be glad that it's all in the Plan.

Either way, you are where God wants you to be and will end up where God already determined you will end up. The rest is gravy. That's Calvinism for you. Saved or unsaved, it's none of your doing, you are in God's hands! So, wherever you end up, don't worry, be happy.

2,504 posted on 02/11/2006 4:04:36 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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