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To: Kolokotronis
Me: "Did Christ have free will?"

Christ is God, the origin and definition of Free Will. Before the Fall, Adam was in a state of potential theosis, though likely far more advanced than any of us. His free will was natural to him and not at all a flaw. Free Will is an attribute of our Triune God and Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. The exercise of that Free Will, to gain knowledge when he wasn't ready for it and then lying about it to God was Adam's doing, Adam's sin, not God's. God is never the author of evil, my friend.

Firstly, I fully agree that God is not the author of evil, I have said so explicitly several times on this thread. My premise for asking the question was that Adam was not created in perfection, because he had the free will to sin, and of course, he did. In heaven, there is no sin, so we will be "perfect" then, although not equal to God or His essence in any sense. So, another way to ask my same question would be: "could Jesus have used His free will and sinned"? I would answer 'No', not because He doesn't have the power to do whatever He wants, but because it is not His nature to sin. The incarnation of Jesus was in perfection, unlike Adam.

Thank you very much for your comments on the filioque. That was very informative.

2,220 posted on 02/01/2006 6:28:07 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

"My premise for asking the question was that Adam was not created in perfection, because he had the free will to sin, and of course, he did."

FK, where do you get the idea that because man was created with Free Will, a divine attribute, that that meant he wasn't created perfect? By the way, I agree, Adam was not created in a state of complete theosis.

"In heaven, there is no sin, so we will be "perfect" then, although not equal to God or His essence in any sense. So, another way to ask my same question would be: "could Jesus have used His free will and sinned"? I would answer 'No', not because He doesn't have the power to do whatever He wants, but because it is not His nature to sin."

There is no "sin" in heaven because every being in heaven is in a state of theosis. Remember that the English word "sin" is a translation of the Greek word "amartia" which means "to miss the mark". The mark is Christ and missing the mark means we aren't being Christ like. Christ of course does not need to be "Christ-like". Asking whether therefore if Chrust could exercise His Free Will and sin is meaningless.

"The incarnation of Jesus was in perfection, unlike Adam."

Quite right, but in this Adam and Christ, the New Adam, are alike; Adam had the potential to become like a god and transmit that potentiality to his descendants. It was his created purpose. That potential was lost by the Sin of Adam. Christ, the New Adam restored the potential for theosis to the descendants of Adam.


2,222 posted on 02/01/2006 7:04:53 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
So, another way to ask my same question would be: "could Jesus have used His free will and sinned"?

The answer is "Yes." Jesus was tempted like any one of us, but He chose not to.

I would answer 'No', not because He doesn't have the power to do whatever He wants, but because it is not His nature to sin

Which one of His natures, FK? His divine or His human nature? You see, the moment you begin to separate His humanity from ours, you wonder into heresies that were long discarded -- namely that Christ only "appeared" as man. If He was subject to passions, and he was, then He was subject to sin. If he did not reject sin on His own free will, what accomplishment would His sinlessness be? What hope would we ever have of achieving theosis?

2,223 posted on 02/01/2006 7:37:25 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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