Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope

Zenit News Agency ^ | November 30, 2005

[NYer]

Refers to St. Augustine's Commentary on Psalm 136(137)

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).

On a rainy morning in Rome, the Holy Father's meditation, addressed to more than 23,000 people gathered in St. Peter's Square, concentrated on the suffering of the Jewish people in the Babylonian exile, expressed dramatically in Psalm 136(137).

The Pontiff referred to Augustine's commentary on this composition of the Jewish people, noting that this "Father of the Church introduces a surprising element of great timeliness."

Augustine "knows that also among the inhabitants of Babylon there are people who are committed to peace and the good of the community, despite the fact that they do not share the biblical faith, that they do not know the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire," Benedict XVI stated.

"They have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption," explained the Pope, quoting Augustine.

This spark

"And he says that among the persecutors, among the nonbelievers, there are people with this spark, with a kind of faith, of hope, in the measure that is possible for them in the circumstances in which they live," the Holy Father continued.

"With this faith in an unknown reality, they are really on the way to the authentic Jerusalem, to Christ," he clarified.

Continuing with his quotes from Augustine, the Pope added that "God will not allow them to perish with Babylon, having predestined them to be citizens of Jerusalem, on the condition, however, that, living in Babylon, they do not seek pride, outdated pomp and arrogance."

The Bishop of Rome concluded by inviting those present to pray to the Lord "that he will awaken in all of us this desire, this openness to God, and that those who do not know God may also be touched by his love, so that all of us journey together toward the definitive City and that the light of this City might also shine in our time and in our world."

[Dominick]

I think you all missed that he was talking about Jews separated from Judaism, living in Babylon. Without following the laws of Judaism, at that time the way God wanted things to be, that they could possibly share in the anticipated salvivic Grace fro Christ that was enjoyed by the Patriarchs.

I hate when people get tied up thinking what is possible is what is actually probable. I get the same problem in engineering. What is possible doesn't mean you can do it in a practical sense. Yes, I can jump out of an aircraft without a chute and possibly survive, unless I find a very large haystack or matress factory to land on, I am likely to splat onto the ground.

In the case of this speculation, it is wrong to extend this to anyone at all, even anyone living in Babylon. This was a specific case, and the Pope was making the analogy to people of good faith today, and how they can be led to Christ, which he states in the last part. He did not make the general case of Salvation without Christ. He provided no such escape clause as others are saying here for Buddhists, Wiccans or, "Chia Pet worshipers" who are peaceable to attain Salvation without Christ.

Pope John Paul in Redemptor Hominis:

Our spirit is set in one direction, the only direction for our intellect, will and heart is-towards Christ our Redeemer, towards Christ, the Redeemer of man. We wish to look towards him-because there is salvation in no one else but him, the Son of God- repeating what Peter said: "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life".

[nmh]

Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Obviously Catholicism is NOT compatible with the Bible - nothing new about that.

No belief=not saved.

[nmh]

They have their own religion.

Homos as Priests and now this - unbelief and you're still "saved" - totally UnBiblical.

[jo kus]

This is EXACTLY where all this leads when one forgets tradition.

Talk about calling the kettle black...

Does this mean you now believe in the real presence of the Eucharist, or are you the arbitrator of WHAT traditions we all shall now follow?

Regards

[Rhadaghast]

A very small correction to your otherwise good post.
It should not read 'faith in God'. That is what this hole discussion is about. It should read 'Faith in Jesus Christ completed sacrifice as substitution'.

This article is saying and the Catholics are describing someone that has never heard of Christ but acts justly could be saved because of God's mercy.

This is not supported in scripture by Jesus own words. John 14:6 is not ambiguous.

[Rhadaghast]

The salvation may be available, but the scripture consistently say, that no man chooses it with out the holy spirit drawing them.

[jo kus]

For many, many years, Catholics were taught "Outside the Church, there is no salvation." In the NewThink of Vatican II, tradition is easily forgotten ...

Unfortunately, many Catholics got caught up in the polemics against Protestants and took the "outside the Church there is no salvation" the wrong way. Go back to the 200's and see that the Church, which considers Baptism as the gateway into the Church, considered Baptisms by heretics as VALID - and thus imperfectly part of the Church. THAT is our tradition - not casting everyone into hell who does not reside within the visible walls of the Roman Catholic Church.

Regards

[HarleyD]

Does this mean you now believe in the real presence of the Eucharist, or are you the arbitrator of WHAT traditions we all shall now follow?

What does it matter? I can be a Muslim and still be saved.

BTW-I'm not calling any kettle black. You guys need to be writing the Vatican.

[Rutles4Ever]

It would be the same as calling you an uncaring SOB for forgetting my birthday. Would that be fair and just and merciful? Aren't you just supposed to know when my birthday is? Or would it help if someone told you?

The Pope is not referring to people who have received the Gospel and rejected it. I know this will come as a shock to my Protestant friends, but not everyone has heard the Gospel, and perhaps there are some in your own family, who, though they've never enjoyed the fruit of a religious upbringing, will enter heaven before you and I...

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Actually, I thought he was using that as a jump-off point to say how we ought to be open in our hearts to the pull of God, and that in conclusion, he prayed that we all would be so open.

[jo kus]

Homos as Priests and now this - unbelief and you're still "saved" - totally UnBiblical.

Read the John 3 verses that you posted more carefully.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already"

This doesn't say anything about those who are not aware of Christ, only those who either : know Christ and believe; know Christ and do NOT believe.

What about those who never HEARD about Christ? Your way condemns THEM to hell, as well. You are being "unbiblical". Here is what the Scriptures says about such people:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Romans 1:18-21)

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. (Romans 2:1)

For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:13-16)

It appears that it is normative for a person to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior as the ordinary way to taking the step to become saved. However, Paul recognizes that God even writes His Law on those people's heart who do NOT know about Christ - and they CAN and DO obey this Law. God will judge us according to the Gospel that Jesus gave us - to love the Creator of the Universe and our neighbor as ourselves. If God desires that all men be saved, it is a contradiction to say that He condemns people who never even HEARD of Christ.

This is why reading the Scripture is so important, rather than reading one's own theology into it. As a result, you missed part of the Gospel.

Regards

[Rutles4Ever]

Here we go again... What's truly CONTRA-biblical is your skill at passing judgment on the Church founded on Peter.

Which version of the Holy Spirit inspires YOUR church? We in the Catholic Church are still using version 1.0, whereas yours is, well, just a pirated, 20,000th-generation copy.

I wouldn't be placing bets on who enters heaven and who doesn't. God has a way of embarrassing the presumptuous.

[jo kus]

What does it matter? I can be a Muslim and still be saved.

First, this is Scriptural. See post #71.

Christ came to bring life to the fullest - even in the here and now. We come to a more fuller life through Christ's Body, the Church. Thus, technically, a person can be saved and never had heard of the Church - yet wind up in heaven because he followed the Law written on his heart.

However, as you are sure to agree with, this is a much more difficult proposition. We need God's visible manifestation on the Earth, the Church, to continue to teach, preach, heal, and sanctify us. God has given us the Church to enable us to come closer to Him. Without the Church, for example, you would never had heard the Gospel.

By following the ways of Christ, as taught by the Church, we are more likely to be enter the Kingdom - although taxcollectors and harlots may enter before those "within" the Church. We, as humans, need all the help we can get.

Sorry to disagree. You are indeed picking and choosing which traditions to follow.

Regards

[kittymyrib]

Uhhhh...I guess that means that the Pope hasn't read what Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6) Being Pope doesn't mean you are God and can change God's Word.

[Rutles4Ever]

What does it matter? I can be a Muslim and still be saved.

Are you sitting down? God loves Osama bin Laden as much as he loves you. God wants Osama bin Laden to enter heaven as much as he wants you and I to enter heaven.

The difference is that Osama bin Laden has chosen to reject the common laws of God which are written on the hearts of men. The Muslim, Buddhist, heck - atheist - who, by no fault of their own has never received the Gospel, yet lives by the laws of God written on their heart, can receive salvation.

Take a good look at the parable of the workers who came late to the work day and received the same pay as those who were there all along. You DARE to limit God in His mercy???

You, I, your neighbor - no one knows what happens at the moment of death. You cannot suppose that Christ doesn't come to these people and offer them the grace to accept or reject His Divinity and mercy at the moment of death. I believe this is a strong possibility. On the flip side, I have not a single ounce of authority to declare one person "saved" and another person "not saved".

[P-Marlowe]

By following the ways of Christ, as taught by the Church, we are more likely to be enter the Kingdom - although taxcollectors and harlots may enter before those "within" the Church.

If by "Church" you mean the Roman Catholic Church, now headed by this man who appears to believe that Christ is not necessary for salvation, then I will agree that unsaved harlots and taxpayers stand a better chance of getting into heaven than those who are following the teachings of a man who apparently believes that Christ's death on the cross was not necessary for our salvation or that belief in Christ is nothing more than icing on the cake for the salvation that people can attain by simply having a so-called good heart, even if the heart has never been changed by the working of the Holy Spirit into a saving faith. This is a false gospel!

OTOH if you mean by "Church" the body of true believers in Christ, then of course you are yourself spewing damnable heresy as scripture is crystal clear that no man can come to the Father except by and trough Christ. The Gospel is that those who believe on Christ and confess him before men are saved and those who do not believe or those who deny Christ are damned. Giving people false hope that their belief in Muhammad or Buddha or Hinduism is no real bar to their entrance into the Kingdom of God as long as their heart is in the right place is "another gospel" and quite frankly, anyone preaching such a gospel, be they an angel from heaven or the Pope of Rome is in mortal danger of being accursed by God.

[Bigg Red]

But it wasn't reported as worldwide news back then.

**
True. You don't suppose some journalist is trying to get things stirred up, do you? They'd never do anything like that. /s

[redgolum]

It is in "The City of God". I don't have the exact reference.

Basically it was an attempt to answer the age old question of what happens to the soul of those who have never heard the Gospel.

Funny thing is that Augustine was of two minds on the subject. He saw the possibility, but at the same time could not reconcile it. Augustine's views on infants that die before baptism were not as optimistic.

[redgolum]

E sword is a great program! I love it and have had it since its early version.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You wrote, "Sort of at odds with what Jesus said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

The second person of the Trinity, the Son, has existed through all eternity, co-eternal with the Father. He is "the Lamb who was slain before the foundations of the world"--- a world which was created "through Him and for Him."

His action is sometimes mysterious. Think of what Paul says to a Hebrew congregation in 1 Cor. 10:

[Our ancestors] all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ.

Christ was with them, and they didn't know His name!

And speaking to pagans, St. Paul boldly affirmed:

Acts 17:28 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said,'For we are also his offspring.'

(Again, this is not "Universal Salvation," this is the universal availability of salvation by Christ.)

The hidden or "mysterious" presence of Christ comes to the highest possible significance when the Lord Jesus Christ Himself gives us the only detailed account of the actual criteria of the Last Judgment in Matthew 25. You'll recall that Christ's "mysterious" or hidden presence was explained (repeated four times verbatim, boom-boom-boom-boom --- He knew He'd have to pound this into our thick heads) as His presence in the hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, and imprisoned.

One of the really interesting things, for me, in this passage, is this: both the saved and the damned are surprised! Check it out. The saved didn't necessarily know that they were ministering to Christ when they ministered to "the least," people who had no clothes, no home, no food; and the damned didn't realize they were leaving Christ in hunger and thirst when they turned away from the needy.

This is as clear a refutation of "nominalism" as you can get, and it comes from Christ Himself.

As one Church Father put it - and it has become a rule of thumb in many Orthodox circles, as well as for those outside of Orthodoxy - "We know where the church is; we do not know where the church is not." It is equally true to say --- in fact, it is a logical corollary --- that "We know where Christ is; we do not know where Christ is not."

This post of mine, and the previous one, are only meant to emphasize that while Christ is surely the one and only mediator, savior, and redeemer of the world, there are millions, even billions who do not know Him "nominally" by the name of Christ, but who know Him nonetheless because of devotion to the Truth, the Light, or compassionate aid for brothers and sisters in need.

I have this on the highest authority:

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.