Even the elect are admonished to make their calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10). You can indeed be certain about what's going on.
Posted on 11/30/2005 6:41:45 PM PST by NYer
Refers to St. Augustine's Commentary on Psalm 136(137)
VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.
The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).
On a rainy morning in Rome, the Holy Father's meditation, addressed to more than 23,000 people gathered in St. Peter's Square, concentrated on the suffering of the Jewish people in the Babylonian exile, expressed dramatically in Psalm 136(137).
The Pontiff referred to Augustine's commentary on this composition of the Jewish people, noting that this "Father of the Church introduces a surprising element of great timeliness."
Augustine "knows that also among the inhabitants of Babylon there are people who are committed to peace and the good of the community, despite the fact that they do not share the biblical faith, that they do not know the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire," Benedict XVI stated.
"They have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption," explained the Pope, quoting Augustine.
This spark
"And he says that among the persecutors, among the nonbelievers, there are people with this spark, with a kind of faith, of hope, in the measure that is possible for them in the circumstances in which they live," the Holy Father continued.
"With this faith in an unknown reality, they are really on the way to the authentic Jerusalem, to Christ," he clarified.
Continuing with his quotes from Augustine, the Pope added that "God will not allow them to perish with Babylon, having predestined them to be citizens of Jerusalem, on the condition, however, that, living in Babylon, they do not seek pride, outdated pomp and arrogance."
The Bishop of Rome concluded by inviting those present to pray to the Lord "that he will awaken in all of us this desire, this openness to God, and that those who do not know God may also be touched by his love, so that all of us journey together toward the definitive City and that the light of this City might also shine in our time and in our world."
Because they have a much *better* and *surer* means to salvation as Christians than as pagans. What is grace for if not a vehicle to salvation? Christians, by virtue of the Sacraments and by other means available to them as members of the Faith, have much, much more grace at their disposal than unbelievers. It is much easier to be saved as a Christian than as a non-Christian. There is no moral assurance of salvation at all unless one is a faithful follower of Christ. How *difficult* it must be for the pagans to be saved! Therefore, it is incorrect to say that we "risk their eternity" by evangelizing them.
BTTT
Doesn't this article say that it's OK to be an unbeliever?
I don't have any problem with anything you said in this post.
Maybe you think I'm some new ager or something that doesn't see the importance of spreading the Word. Let me make it clear though: It's important to hear the word, to spread it, so that others may hear and understand where they came from, and worship the one true God.
If no one hears this message, then it's up to God how to deal with them, and I do not believe if someone has never heard the Word, then they can NEVER be saved.
That's it. I don't know why we're continuing this discussion, unless you think for some bizzare reason that if someone never hears the Word, they are going to Hell automatically. If you don't believe that, then we have no disagreement.
Somebody once said that all it takes to make an evangelist to be on fire for the Lord, is to spend five seconds in the fire of hell.
You want to take a chance on somebody being saved by general revelation? Paul says most certainly that we are saved by faith, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by those that preach the Word. How shall they hear if we don't GO and preach it? I aint taking that chance, you can. My hands are clean, their blood is on your head.
Even the elect are admonished to make their calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10). You can indeed be certain about what's going on.
Where are you getting this translation?
The Hebrew in Malachi 1:3 Translates to:
1. to hate, be hateful
a) (Qal) to hate
1. of man
2. of God
3. hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
2. (Niphal) to be hated
3. (Piel) hater (participle)
1. of persons, nations, God, wisdom
The Greek in Romans 9:13 translates to:
1. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
2. to be hated, detested
Scripture indicates that we are akin to a watchman in the tower of the walls about the city. What kind of watchman doesn't give the warning when the barbarians approach and what does God demand of us if we fail to cry the alarm (Ez 33:6)?
No. Not at all. Ignoring the issue of whether the translation is accurate, no Catholic would ever say it is "okay" to be an unbeliever. While it might be *barely* possible to be saved as a pagan or other non-believer, it is hardly normative, hardly the ideal situation, and hardly gives such a person ANY assurance of salvation while in this life. Under such circumstances, I sure am thankful for the gift of faith and access to sacramental grace! I would hardly suppose myself to be in a rosey situation were I a non-Christian, to the point where I could suppose that "the Christians say that I'm okay with their God."
Amazing news... You don't know how to read according to your post. And people wonder why Catholics have a problem with Protestants.
Can you give examples of a couple of these unbelievers who have been saved in this way... Say....a couple from the bible and a couple from history?
The thief may have been a non-believer up until he was being crucified along with Christ, but he had a revelation of who Jesus was and thus became a believer. He acknowledged Jesus and, in turn, Jesus acknowledged him.
Do you even know how to read? The Pope said nothing of the sort.
Doesn't the phraseology indicate that the "UNKNOWN GOD" is the same God as Paul's?
"Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you."
No, but he left the clear impresssion that if you are sincere in your belief in Buddhism or Shinto or Hinduism or Bahai or some other non-Christian religion and you "sincerely" are a seeker after truth, that you will be saved even if you never come a biblical belief in Christ. To even leave such an impression is a departure from the historic faith. To suggest that there is hope outside of Christ is to preach another Gospel.
All those other religions have either directly and specifically denied Christ or they claim that the path of Christ is simply another spiritual road to the same Nirvana or spiritual enlightenment that they achieve.
IMO that is blasphemy. Those roads are not equal to the path that leads to Christ, those paths lead to destruction. That is why they are called the broad path. Because they are so inclusive. But the road to salvation is narrow. You don't stumble upon it while searching for truth on the broad highway. If you are searching for salvation on the broad highway, you are on the highway to hell, you are not on a road which will lead to life.
Ratzinger seemed to imply that all one needs to do is to sincerely believe in the faith of your heart (whatever that faith is) and you will ultimately be saved. I can think of no more of a dangerous and damnable heresy than that.
Quit being an ass. You prove that you know NOTHING about doctrine vs. discipline so stop making a fool of yourself.
Invincible ignorance is not salvific.
Without Faith, no one is saved. Period. It is absolutely essential for the supernatural life to at least believe "that God exists and that He rewards those who seek him," and probably necessary to also believe, if dimly, in our Lord Jesus Christ and the Most Holy Trinity. Cf. CCC 161.
Zenit is at fault here for misinterpreting the Pope - and St. Augustine - in a seriously erroneous fashion.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.