Posted on 11/23/2005 11:01:06 AM PST by NYer
ROME (Reuters) - A leader of an ultra-traditionalist Catholic group that broke with the Vatican said on Saturday that Pope Benedict should tell Jews and members of other religions to convert because they are part of "false systems".
Father Franz Schmidberger, a top official of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), also called on the Pope to invalidate excommunications imposed when its founder, the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, ordained bishops without permission.
The SSPX rejects the reforms of the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council. It sticks to the old Latin mass and opposes recognizing the validity of other religions, particularly non-Christians.
"Other religions, as such, are false systems," said Schmidberger, who is the right-hand man of the traditionalists' current head, Bishop Bernard Fellay.
"Instead of leading their members to our Lord Jesus Christ, to Baptism and the confession of faith in his divinity, they refrain from this and so we consider these other religions as very dangerous," he told a news conference presenting a biography of Lefebvre.
"St Peter, the first pope, preached to the Jews and told them that 'if you want to be saved you must do three things: you must regret your sins and convert, believe in our lord Jesus Christ and, thirdly, be baptized,'" he said.
"We expect that every pope who claims to be the successor of St Peter and he (Benedict) is the successor of St Peter, should take the same stand in meetings with leaders of other religions and tell them the same three things," Schmidberger said.
DIALOGUE
Fellay and Schmidberger held talks with Benedict last August. But while Benedict shares the SSPX's concern for some parts of Catholic tradition and has encouraged wider use of Latin in the Church, he has vowed to continue the dialogue with other religions begun by his predecessor John Paul.
Benedict has met Jews, Protestants and Muslims. In August he visited a synagogue in his native Germany.
The late pope sanctioned the excommunication of the traditionalist leaders in 1988 when they defied his warnings and went ahead with the bishops' ordinations without permission.
The SSPX, which sees itself as the guardian of true Catholicism, now has four bishops and some 450 priests around the world.
Schmidberger said the group had two basic prerequisites for dialogue with the Vatican
The first was an indult that would allow the unconditional return of the old-style Latin mass, which was sidelined after the Second Vatican Council opted for services in local languages.
Saying the Latin mass now requires approval from local bishops, who are often reluctant to make exceptions for a tiny minority in their dioceses.
The second prerequisite was that the excommunications imposed on the group in 1988 be declared invalid.
One of the best-known traditionalist Catholics is actor Mel Gibson but it is not clear if he supports the SSPX, which is based at the rebel seminary Lefebvre ran in Switzerland.
Once the drumming starts, I can't help belly dancing. I didn't realize it was that bad, sorry.
St. Simon of Trent and Bl. Andreas of Rinn were both canonized or beatified by the Pope after their martyrdom at the hands of deranged local Jewish men. Pope Benedict XIV explicitly recognizes the genuineness of these cases of ritual murder, even while dismissing a multitude of others as unfounded.
I've asked this before and had no answer. What is easier to believe? That some deranged Jewish individuals, hiding under the guise of their religion, have practiced Satanism and sacrified little children and grown men, just as some deranged Christians and Muslims and Hindus, etc. have done? Or that people of every other religion have done this except the Jews, accounts in the Scripture of the Israelites apostasizing by sacrificing children to Moloch notwithstanding?
When you have sick Jewish perverts like "Son-of-Sam" David Berkowitz, just like you have sick non-Jewish perverts like Ted Bundy, it is rather difficult to believe that no where at any time has a Christian child been murdered in a satanic cermony by an ostensible Jewish man.
Good-now Christ also said that he would vomit the luke warm out of His mouth- the lukewarm--wishy washy in the Catholic Faith-as is explained.
So just because you personally have not encountered hot dogs,ect.doe not mean it never happened and IS STILL GOING ON -in the so-called NEW ORDO across the globe!
The beauty of the NEW Ordo is as Protestant as it is-no or very few altars,crucifixes,stations of the cross (if you can find or recogize them),confessionals,..wheres the lines? compassion and care for the ill-(oh everyone goes to heaven ) Last rites gone or replaced with something else.
Catholic Churches here and across the globe continue to close along with the Catholic schools-why? The great reason and effort in building them in the first place by our Forefathers-forgotten.
Women push their way into what they want "to be a priest" HA - they can't handle a family and now they want a flock _ SAD!
Despite the effort in SSPX it is NOT JUST THEIRS- thousands of unheard Traditonal Catholics WANT the OLD WAY-even JpII asked for a REQUIEM MASS for his furneral-which I might add was NOT what he GOT! Oh yes, and the Souls in Purgatory-where are THIER REQUIEM MASSES????????
Movie stars are included in the Traditonal Latin MAss WANTERS ! and YOUNG priests jump ship from what they find no real CAtholism in the New Ordo -to be trained to say nothing but the Holy Latin Tridentine MAss..and it happns all behind the scences!!!
We have no preferences as you say ELK --but to remain Faithful to TRADITION AS ST. PAUL says in the Bible. Over 40yrs.and the Latin Tridentine MAss,its priests and people grow ! It will not die..and the POPE is moving towards the ways of the OLD rules too.
SSPX supports the POPE with their prayers!-That God will help.guide,enlighten,and direct him..to be the POPE GOD"S people need him to be...
Thats a BIG SUPPORT as well as EFFORT..
Bad, bad ultra-traditionalist!!!
SSPX supports the pope the way Dennis Kucinich and Cindy Sheehan support the troops.
Heh, heh, heh!
:-).
There are many paths to God. I was born to, and choose to remain on, the Jewish path. Thank you for your concern, however. I know you think you're doing me a favor.
You possess a mentality twisted enough to imagine that to be support. What pathetic delusional creatures are the SSPX excommunicati!
All European Life Died In Auschwitz
By Sebastian Villar Rodriguez - Spanish Writer, September 23, 2005.
I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible truth – Europe died in Auschwitz.
We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims.
In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful people who changed the world.
The contribution of this people is felt in all areas of life: science, art, international trade, and above all, as the conscience of the world. These are the people we burned.
And under the pretence of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.
They have turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.
Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.
And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.
We have exchanged the pursuit of peace of the Jews of Europe and their talent for hoping for a better future for their children, their determined clinging to life because life is holy, for those who pursue death, for people consumed by the desire for death for themselves and others, for our children and theirs.
What a terrible mistake was made by miserable Europe. [end]
Genesis (12:3) -- GOD WILL BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS THE JEWS AND CURSE WHOEVER CURSES THE JEWS.
Who empowered this Fr. Schmidberger of the SSPX schism to do so?
As a matter of fact, as Roman Catholics, you and I are required to believe in individual free will, individual reward and punishment for the actions in which the individual has engaged.
It is moral monstrosity to suggest that any Jew, just for being a Jew, bears any responsibility whatsoever for the death of Jesus Christ other than as an individual sinner, a status shared with each and every Catholic and each and every other human being other than Jesus Christ and Mary who has ever lived or ever will. If Jesus Christ was crucified by the sins of Jews, he was equally crucified by the slightest sins of you or me or of any other non-Jew. Oftentimes we are guilty of confusing people as to what we believe.
It is NOT liberal to frankly state that our Catholic Faith requires us NOT to believe the blood libel against Jews (all but a willfully acting handful under Annas and Caiphas) who are generally as innocent of those actions as is thee or me.
Please never be discouraged in so testifying to the truth. May you and yours be blessed.
See #55. May you and yours also be blessed. Thanks for a great and insightful post.
I don't mean to be a nit-picker, but Genesis 12:3 refers, not merely to the Jews, but to all the descendants of Abraham: through his concubine, Keturah; through his son, Ishmael; and through his grandson, Esau. This covers a lot of ethno-geographic territory.
I think you have a reply, FWIW...lol.
Fine. Still, the following from Dennis Prager re: this verse:
I think of Spain, for example. One of the world's mightiest powers and most developed cultures in the 15th century, in 1492 it reached its zenith when it sent Christopher Columbus on a voyage that changed history. But the same year, it also expelled all its Jews and intensified the Spanish Inquisition against the many forced Jewish converts to Catholicism (conversos) . Spain then descended into a 500-year status as "the sick man of Europe."
I think of Germany (and Austria) as the cultural and intellectual center of Europe, if not the world, before World War II. Then Germany (with Austrians' help) murdered nearly every Jew in Europe. Germany lost over seven million people, was divided for a generation, and while it now thrives materially, culturally Germany has become irrelevant. Ask anyone, even an intellectual, to name one living German.
And I think about the world today. Look at who most blesses the Jews and who most curses them, and you decide whether the verse in Genesis has validity.
It is the United States that has, since its inception, most blessed the Jews and that does so almost alone today -- in its support of the Jewish state against those who wish to exterminate it. By almost any reckoning, America has been, and remains, the most blessed of countries.
And it is the Arab world that curses the Jews. It rivals Nazi Germany for the ubiquity and intensity of its Jew-hatred. Look at its state. According to Arab scholars appointed by the United Nations to report on the state of Arab society, that part of the world lags behind the rest of humanity, including in most instances sub-Saharan Africa, in virtually every social, moral and intellectual indicator. And there is no question but that its half-century long preoccupation with destroying Israel has only increased the Arab world's woes.
No one can prove it is G-d who actively blesses those who bless the Jews and curses those who curse them. But, at the same time, the evidence historically and this very moment suggests that there is indeed a real connection between the state of a society and its treatment of the Jews.
Excellent points.
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