Ultra-traditionalist says pope should convert Jews

Reuters ^ | November 19, 2005 | Phillip Pulella

[NYer]

ROME (Reuters) - A leader of an ultra-traditionalist Catholic group that broke with the Vatican said on Saturday that Pope Benedict should tell Jews and members of other religions to convert because they are part of "false systems".

Father Franz Schmidberger, a top official of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), also called on the Pope to invalidate excommunications imposed when its founder, the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, ordained bishops without permission.

The SSPX rejects the reforms of the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council. It sticks to the old Latin mass and opposes recognizing the validity of other religions, particularly non-Christians.

"Other religions, as such, are false systems," said Schmidberger, who is the right-hand man of the traditionalists' current head, Bishop Bernard Fellay.

"Instead of leading their members to our Lord Jesus Christ, to Baptism and the confession of faith in his divinity, they refrain from this and so we consider these other religions as very dangerous," he told a news conference presenting a biography of Lefebvre.

"St Peter, the first pope, preached to the Jews and told them that 'if you want to be saved you must do three things: you must regret your sins and convert, believe in our lord Jesus Christ and, thirdly, be baptized,'" he said.

"We expect that every pope who claims to be the successor of St Peter and he (Benedict) is the successor of St Peter, should take the same stand in meetings with leaders of other religions and tell them the same three things," Schmidberger said.

DIALOGUE

Fellay and Schmidberger held talks with Benedict last August. But while Benedict shares the SSPX's concern for some parts of Catholic tradition and has encouraged wider use of Latin in the Church, he has vowed to continue the dialogue with other religions begun by his predecessor John Paul.

Benedict has met Jews, Protestants and Muslims. In August he visited a synagogue in his native Germany.

The late pope sanctioned the excommunication of the traditionalist leaders in 1988 when they defied his warnings and went ahead with the bishops' ordinations without permission.

The SSPX, which sees itself as the guardian of true Catholicism, now has four bishops and some 450 priests around the world.

Schmidberger said the group had two basic prerequisites for dialogue with the Vatican

The first was an indult that would allow the unconditional return of the old-style Latin mass, which was sidelined after the Second Vatican Council opted for services in local languages.

Saying the Latin mass now requires approval from local bishops, who are often reluctant to make exceptions for a tiny minority in their dioceses.

The second prerequisite was that the excommunications imposed on the group in 1988 be declared invalid.

One of the best-known traditionalist Catholics is actor Mel Gibson but it is not clear if he supports the SSPX, which is based at the rebel seminary Lefebvre ran in Switzerland.

[NYer]

In our time, when day by day mankind is being drawn closer together, and the ties between different peoples are becoming stronger, the Church examines more closely he relationship to non- Christian religions. In her task of promoting unity and love among men, indeed among nations, she considers above all in this declaration what men have in common and what draws them to fellowship.

Nostra Aetate - DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS

[Pyro7480]

They all need to convert though. That was certainly why Our Lady appeared to Alphonse Ratisbonne.

[siunevada]

Interesting headline.

I envisioned a big "Conversion" machine in the back. All he's got to do is crank it up and conversion just happens!

Unless something has changed drastically, only God changes hearts.

[Cheverus]

Ok, I may be opening a can of worms here, but I thought Franz Schmidberger was one of the original six ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1976. AND I though that when a French Priest was expelled in September 2004 four he was the last of the original six.

Does anyone have these six names? I am curious as to what happened to each of the original six? Wasn't the first Superior of the FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter) one of the original six?

[ex-snook]

Move along, nothing new. Sounds like what Jesus told the apostles to do. [and they did].

[Rosary]

Glad to know that SSPX has the guts to be CATHOLIC and re-start the lost word -
CONVERSION---- CONVERSION----- CONVERSION !!!!!

Right on the nose!

[marshmallow]

"We expect that every pope who claims to be the successor of St Peter and he (Benedict) is the successor of St Peter, should take the same stand in meetings with leaders of other religions and tell them the same three things," Schmidberger said.

And as we know, the "in your face" approach has been hugely successful, hasn't it? The Catholic Church is 2,000 years old; 1,960 of those years were pre-Vatican II years, while 40 are post Vatican II years. If the Jews have not yet come to Christ, it's somehow B-16's fault?

What's been happening in the previous 1,960 years? Did nobody think to apply the SSPX approach in all that time? Or was it tried to no avail? Jesus himself didn't get far with the Jews and neither did St. Peter or the other apostles. Now Schmidbeger is saying to the Pope "this is the way you do it."

Maybe Father, it's time to look at another approach to this issue.

[eastsider]

I envisioned a big "Conversion" machine in the back. All he's got to do is crank it up and conversion just happens!

Actually, it's very similar to converting rice. First, you soak 'em in water or steam 'em. This forces grace into their souls ...

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

"St Peter.... preached to the Jews and told them that 'if you want to be saved you must do three things: you must regret your sins and convert, believe in our lord Jesus Christ and, thirdly, be baptized,'" he said.

Not being Catholic, it was only recent news to me that Catholics ever deviated from this position. And it was SHOCKING and SAD news.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

And as we know, the "in your face" approach has been hugely successful, hasn't it?

There is a middle ground between convert or die and all paths lead to God.

[siunevada]

We expect that every pope who claims to be the successor of St Peter...should take the same stand

It's interesting that Scmidberger neglects the preceeding passage where the crowd first asks Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?"

The desire to know what to do was in their hearts and they expressed it before Peter tells them what to do.

'Regret' sins? Maybe that got garbled in the translation process.

[Tantumergo]

"Not being Catholic, it was only recent news to me that Catholics ever deviated from this position. And it was SHOCKING and SAD news."

Be assured that Catholics never deviate from this position. It is only infidels and heretics that do so, no matter how much they claim to be Catholic or how big their pointy hat is.

[marshmallow]

Exactly.

Peter's instruction was issued as the result of a request for information prompted by Divine grace. I have no doubt B-16 would do likewise if he were to receive a similar inquiry.

[BlackElk]

Of course, since SSPX has been ruled to be in schism by Pope John Paul II of happy memory, a ruling never altered or repealed or replaced by him or by B-16, the SSPX is still in schism. Likewise its bishops and adherents are excommunicated by the same document and that has not changed either. SSPX and its cultists can hardly be said to be Catholic at all, as is well known. Those rulings were by an even higher authority than the Associated Press.

Of course, CONVERSION, CONVERSION, CONVERSION is relevant to SSPXers since they need to convert to Catholicism and abandon their schismatic cult.

[Rosary]

B-16..WOW -what disrespect!

SSPX only stuck with Tradition as far as ANY one can see--- or prove--they are NOT in any SCHISM-they never changed from the old rules and regulations of the CAtholic Church and they have every marytr on their side.
Pope Benedict XVI ..prayers for him.

[rmlew]

Perhaps if the LEfebrists did not call us Satanists and foist conspiracy theories on Jews, some of us might listen to them.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we would care.

[Pyro7480]

Perhaps if the LEfebrists did not call us Satanists and foist conspiracy theories on Jews, some of us might listen to them.

When did they say that?

[murphE]

Did nobody think to apply the SSPX approach in all that time?

It is not the SSPX approach, they are just imitating the saints, like St Vincent Ferrer. He did just what Fr. Schmidberger is saying to do and St. Vincent Ferrer was very successful.

"...his first biographer, estimates the number of Jews converted at 25,000."

Catholic Encyclopedia

It's amusing that imitating the saints is now considered "ultra" traditional.

[marshmallow]

I'd be a little careful about equating the SSPX approach with St. Vincent Ferrer's. Telling people up front that their religion is empty and false usually has a counterproductive effect. Think how you react when posters on this board say that Catholicism has it all wrong.

I think the SSPX approach is a little more like the traditional Spanish approach to the Jews, pre-St. Vincent Ferrer;

"At different times in Spanish history strenuous attempts had been made to convert the Jewish people, baptism or spoliation being the alternatives offered to them."

Conversion is usually instigated by the realization that the faith being proposed possesses Divine truth and that in turn is usually inspired by personal witness.