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To: jo kus

1. I fail to see the relevance.

2. The Orthodox view regarding the Catholics being in schism is shared by the Catholics in fact. The Catholic church repeatedly states that there can be no healing of the schism without other churchs confesing Catholic doctrine. The Catholic church is no more up for compromise than are the Orthodox. Heresey is black and white you either follow doctrine or don't.

3. The Latin church departed from the 7 councils when the Bishop of Rome changed the creed. Since then the Bishop of Rome has added a handful of other heretical beleifs to Catholic doctrine. Protestants and Catholics are both from the same vein of heretical addtion to doctrine after the 7 councils.

4. The fact is the Catholics have only recently stopped waging war on the Orthodox. The Cardinal of Paris made those statements before during the Crimean war, which the Catholic likely started.

5. I have repeatedly stressed that within the Latin church the pope should be exercising the patriarchial authority given a patriarch over his church. The church in America has one patriarch the one in Rome. I have said this repeatedly and it has nothing to do with a centralized church leader. The Patriarch of Moscow defrocked a priest for performing a same sex marriage. Why does the Bishop of Rome refuse to use his patriarchial authority to govern his flock? The Vatican has known about things for quite some time. The moment the matter came to the Vatican's knowledge the Bishop of Rome was responsible for doing something. There is no precedent for patriarchs knowing of heretical bishops and allowing them to continue in heresy it is the job of the patriarch to combat just that.

The Patriarch of the Latin church is the Bishop of Rome.

A case can be made for not using his power in Ukraine if in fact we are going back to the pre-1054 notion of the primacy, and the pope is viewing the Uniate church as the modern Patriach of Kiev.

Such a case cannot be made for Ameirca, the clear Patriarch of the Latin church in America is the Bishop of Rome.


189 posted on 11/27/2005 4:31:28 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
1. You refuse to answer the question? Do the Orthodox consider the first seven Councils as infallible??? Why is that so hard to answer? The reason, of course, is that you do not wish to show the contradictory stance of some in the Orthodox Church who CLAIM that Rome is in heresy - they claim that the Church is infallible, then, accuse the Church of being heretics? Explain how an infallible Church can be heretics... Your refusal to answer speaks volumes.

2. There is a difference between schism and heresy. We are in Schism. YOU (not the Orthodox Church) says the Latins are heretics. Before we continue in this conversation, perhaps you should reconsider what you are saying. (see #1 above, again...)

3. Ridiculous. First, you say you don't see the relevance of whether the Councils are infallible, then you claim we are heretics for abandoning the entire first 7 Councils because a change of a couple words? Which is it? Can you make up your mind?

4. LOL!!! Next, you'll be claiming that the Pope, not Heinz Guderian, was leading the Panzers across the steppes of Russia in 1941!

5. Rome also "defrocks" or laicizes priests. Sorry it isn't to your satisfaction. NONE of the Bishops were heretics! Boy, you sure like that word, don't you. Again, I ask you to look up what it means before you give everyone that stamp... As to your "precedent", that is utterly ridiculous. Have you any knowledge of Church history? How many Arian bishops were removed after Nicea? After Constantinople? A couple? Please.

I appreciate your concern for us here in the United States. Perhaps you could pray for our bishops here. They seem more concerned with running a business than preaching and teaching the faith. But be that as it may, the Pope isn't about to remove bishops from their posts for doing lousy jobs. Only for teaching outright heresy. There is a difference between the sexual abuse cases and heresy.

Regards

190 posted on 11/27/2005 1:30:46 PM PST by jo kus
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To: x5452

..."The Cardinal of Paris made those statements before during the Crimean war, which the Catholic likely started."..


Hey X -

I have some doubts about that quote if it's the same one from that post about the Church in Ukraine. There has never been a Cardinal named Sibor. There was an Archbishop Sibour of Paris but he died in 1848, a few years before the Crimean war started. So I don't know how accurate those quotes are. I kind of doubt them though.

Hope you had a good thanksgiving. Christ is Risen.


191 posted on 11/27/2005 1:58:50 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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