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To: x5452

..."The Cardinal of Paris made those statements before during the Crimean war, which the Catholic likely started."..


Hey X -

I have some doubts about that quote if it's the same one from that post about the Church in Ukraine. There has never been a Cardinal named Sibor. There was an Archbishop Sibour of Paris but he died in 1848, a few years before the Crimean war started. So I don't know how accurate those quotes are. I kind of doubt them though.

Hope you had a good thanksgiving. Christ is Risen.


191 posted on 11/27/2005 1:58:50 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: Nihil Obstat

http://www.wpfdc.com/eng/news.php?tab_id=1&id=498

He died in 1857 according to:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11480c.htm
http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/p/paris.html

The Crimean War was from 1854 to 1856.

A google search reveals many sources attribute those comments to him.


192 posted on 11/27/2005 2:30:52 PM PST by x5452
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To: Nihil Obstat

It was the dispute between Catholics and Orthodox as to the keys of the Holy Sepulchre that immediately caused the Crimean War (1853).

That's from a Catholic Site:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08364a.htm

"B.) The Cause of the War
In December 1852 the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, giving in on French pressure, transferred the key to (and control over) the CHURCH OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (hitherto Orthodox) to the Catholic Church. Russia, claiming to be the protector of the Orthodox christians living in the Ottoman Empire, demanded it to be restored to the Greek Orthodox Church. Britain and France were opposed to an expansion of Russian influence in the region and dispatched a fleet to the Dardanelles (June 1853); in August, the Russians occupied the Duchies of MOLDAVIA and VLACHIA.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/19cen/crimeanwar.html

In 1690 the Ottoman Sultan granted to the Roman Catholic Church the dominant authority in all the churches in Nazareth, Bethlehem and Jerusalem; then in 1740 a Franco-Turkish treaty stated that Roman Catholic monks should protect the Holy Places. This was intended to ensure the safety of Christians and to enable pilgrimages to Jerusalem; furthermore, the French had asserted their right to rebuild the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem as a Catholic church. However, between 1740 and 1820 the influence of the Roman Catholic Church had been allowed to lapse by natural erosion: there were not many Roman Catholics in that part of the world and Christians tended to belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Consequently, protection of the Holy Places had gradually devolved to Orthodox monks. Russia represented the Orthodox Church as its protector and Czar Nicholas I seems to have thought that he had been ordained by God as the leader of the Orthodox Church and the protector of Orthodox Christians. By the 1840s, Russian pilgrims were flocking to the Holy Land, which gave the Czar the excuse to demand that the Russians should be able to provide some form of protection for his subjects there.

Map of the Ottoman Empire. The map has been taken from the Ottoman Souvenir website with the kind permission of the webmaster, Musa Gursoy, to whom thanks are due. Copyright, of course, remains with the Ottoman Souvenir web. Click on the image for a larger view

In 1850, Louis Napoleon of France decided to champion the cause of Roman Catholics to control the Holy Places; technically he was within his rights but his demands on behalf of the Church allowed him to divert attention from problems in France and also helped him to advocate the idea of a second French Empire. In order to win the support of the majority of the French, Louis Napoleon needed to be seen as a 'good Catholic'; he also wanted to wreak his revenge on Czar Nicholas I for the insult of "mon ami" rather than the traditional "mon frère".

Traditionally, the Pope nominated the Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem but over many years the office had become a meaningless title; the Patriarch did nothing and lived in Rome. However, in 1847, Pope Pius IX -- who had been elected the previous year -- sent the Patriarch to live in Jerusalem because in 1845 the Orthodox Patriarch Cyril had chosen to go to live in the city. In 1847 and 1848 there were unseemly scuffles between Catholic and Orthodox Christian monks and priests in Jerusalem; the representatives of the Orthodox Church emerged truimphant: for example, at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, Catholics had placed a silver star to commemorate the place of Jesus' birth. It was prised out and stolen, allegedly by Orthodox monks.

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/crimea/immcauses.html


194 posted on 11/27/2005 3:27:56 PM PST by x5452
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