Drawing the Line for Mormons: A Closer Look at the LDS Church

Catholic Exchange ^ | October 17, 2005 | Mary Kochan

[NYer]

Mormons want you to believe that they are "Christians" and that their church, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints," is just another Christian denomination. Mormons themselves believe that they are Christians and that their church is the only true church. There is even a move among Mormons to shorten the name of their church to simply "The Church of Jesus Christ."

In This Article...
America's Lost Tribe
Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?
When Talking to a Mormon

America's Lost Tribe

Their founder, Joseph Smith, claimed to have been told in a vision regarding the Christian churches that God "forbade me to join with any of them" and "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight." It is hence Mormons (not Christians) who established, from the beginning of their group, an antagonistic relationship with those Christian groups already in existence. In recent years Mormons have sought to downplay this antagonism, and that testimony of Joseph Smith has received a new whitewashing in the current Newsweek cover story "The Mormon Odyssey" which relates the story like this: "God and Jesus appeared and delivered a startling message: he shouldn't join any of the churches of the world, for they had long ago fallen away from Christ's true Gospel."

In one sense clearly, Mormons are Christian. If you were going to categorize Mormons according to world-religion criteria, you would have to say they are Christians. World religions are the major belief systems found around the world that frame a tradition of enough cultural richness to support a civilization. The major world religions are Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Confucianism and Islam. Clearly Mormonism fits into the broad "Christian" category. And so would many other groups whose relationship with the wider Christian world is antagonistic: Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, etc.

It may be that in the not-too-distant future, we will have to categorize Mormonism as a separate world religion. It is the fifth-largest religious group now in the US, having just passed the Lutherans, and the LDS are experiencing rapid expansion in other countries. In many ways its development parallels that of Islam. Both religions were founded by prophets who claimed to have been visited by an angel. They borrow heavily from Judaism and Christianity, yet reject their central tenets. Both rely upon strange revisions of history. The Koran identifies Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Miriam the sister of Moses, who lived over fourteen centuries earlier. The Book of Mormon makes numerous claims regarding the peoples of the Americas (including the idea that the American Indians descended from a lost tribe of ancient Israelites) that have been refuted by history, archeology and anthropology. Both Islam and Mormonism claim that where their sacred writings contradict the Bible, the Christian and Jewish scriptures have been corrupted.

It might be argued that Mormons have the right to say that they are "Christians" and no one should deny what they say about themselves. It is possible, however, for us to respect their right to call themselves whatever they wish without feeling compelled to validate that claim ourselves. This is complicated by the fact that to many Catholics, Mormonism seems no more strange than the Baptist faith, or that of any other Protestant denomination. In part this is because Mormons themselves generally use the language and terminology common to (especially Protestant) Christians. In their initial approach to you, they will do all they can to hide or gloss over the distinctive beliefs of their church. Statements of Mormon belief sound so much like statements of the Christian faith that many Catholics and Protestants are quite willing to recognize Mormons as "Christians," not merely in the world-religion sense, but in the sense in which we Catholics recognize Protestant Christians as our "separated brethren." This is a serious error with two major consequences.

First, Christians (including Catholics) are misled into the Mormon church where they are indoctrinated in a religion which rejects the central doctrines of the Christian faith, resulting in them bringing their children up as non-Christians. Second, Christians embrace Mormons as fellow Christians instead of evangelizing them.

In order to protect Christians from this deception and to help Mormons learn the truth, we must understand how Mormon doctrine differs from the historic Christian faith that we share with Protestants. To do this, we will examine first what Mormons say, then how they define the terms they are using and how that differs from the Christian faith. Finally we provide a biblical, Christian response and suggestions for how to discuss these things with a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Central Question: Who is God?

What Mormons will say they believe about God:

1. We believe in God the Father who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
   
2. We worship God the Father and pray to him in Jesus's name.
   
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why the Mormon God the Father is not the Christian God the Father:

1. "God the Father" to a Mormon is not God the Father, first Person of the Holy Trinity, Whom Christians confess. He is one of many gods.
   
2. The Mormon worships God the Father because He is the god of this planet, but other planets have other gods equal to or even greater than God the Father.
   
3. The Mormon "God the Father" had a father and was once a man on a planet who worshipped his own Father God. He was subsequently exalted to godhood. He has a physical, human body.
   
4. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he too will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet.
   
5. The Mormons have a saying: "What man is, God once was; what God is, man will become." This is polytheism.

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made the heavens and the earth; there is no other God; there never has been any other God, nor will there ever be another. (Gn 1:1; Is 43;10; 44:6, 8, 24)
2. God the Father was never a man.
3. You will never be God.
4. True Christianity, like Judaism, is monotheistic. As our creed states "We believe in one God."

Jesus: Brother of Lucifer?

Why the Mormon Jesus is not the Christian Jesus:

1. The Mormon Jesus is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (Satan). They were both born in heaven by God the Father's union with one of his many spirit wives.
2. According to Mormon teaching, when it was time for Jesus to come down to earth, God the Father sent down one of his spirit wives from heaven to be born as a woman, Mary. Then he came down and had physical, marital relations with her in order for her to give birth to a human body inhabited by Jesus coming from heaven. This is a denial of the Virgin Birth.

Christian answer:

1. Since God the Father does not have a physical human body, He did not impregnate Mary by a physical union (2 Chr 6:18; Jn 4:24).
   
2. Jesus became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary (Mt 1:23; Lk 2:30-35).
3. God the Father does not have a wife or wives in heaven.
   
4. Jesus is the eternally-begotten Son of God, one in being with the Father (Jn 1:1-18).
   
5. He is not the older brother of Lucifer.
6. He is the older brother, as well as Lord and God, of those born again by water and Spirit, God's adopted children (Jn 3:3-17; Rom 8:14-17, 29).

Why the Mormon doctrine of man is not the Christian doctrine of man:

1. According to Mormonism, all human beings existed as spirit children of God and his wife in heaven before coming to earth.
   
2. They grow to spirit "adulthood" serving God (even fighting in heavenly battles), and are then sent to earth to be babies of human parents.
   
3. The earthly life is their opportunity to become gods themselves, like their heavenly Father, by "obeying the laws of the Gospel" just as the god of this planet once did.

Christian answer:

1. There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth.
   
2. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (Jn 1:18; 3:13, 31; 8:23, 58).
   
3. Jesus took on human nature at the Incarnation. God became man — not the other way around. His human nature was glorified at His Resurrection.
   
4. We will be like God in that we will have the same kind of glorified human nature which Jesus possesses, not in becoming gods and ruling planets ourselves (1 Jn 3:3; Rom 8:22, Phil 3:20-21).
   
5. While heaven is the presence of God with unfettered communion, the distinction between God and creatures remains (Rv 5:13, 14).

What is Salvation?

What Mormons will say they believe about salvation:

1. All are redeemed by the Savior's self-sacrifice, from the consequences of the fall.
   
2. Immortality comes as a free gift, by the grace of God alone, without works.
   
3. Jesus is our Savior.

Why Mormon salvation is not Christian salvation:

1. According to Mormonism, everyone and everything — all of creation — has been redeemed and therefore "saved."
   
2. This salvation gains, for all human beings, a physical resurrection only — not eternal life. Eternal life is not "salvation"; it is "exaltation."
   
3. If you ask a Mormon if he is saved (per Evangelical parlance), he will answer yes.
4. If you ask him if he believes you are saved, he will answer yes. This confuses Christians who do not understand that being "saved" and gaining "eternal life" are not the same thing in Mormon thinking.
   
5. It is further confused by the Mormon distinction between "immortality" (salvation to physical resurrection) and "eternal life" (exaltation to godhood).
6. The Mormons have a saying: "Salvation without exaltation is damnation."
7. Therefore, a Mormon can, with a straight face, tell you he believes you are "saved," while he also believes you are damned.

Christian answer:

1. We define salvation according to what we are saved from. We are saved from sin and from the wages of sin — death.
   
2. To be saved from sin is to be justified and sanctified. To be saved from death is to receive eternal life (Rom 6:22, 23).
   
3. Being saved, justified, sanctified and given eternal life by the grace of God are all things which are interconnected in the Scriptures. There is no biblical basis for separating them (Rom 5).
   
4. Seeking exaltation is contrary to the spirit of Christ. We are rather to humble ourselves, recognize our sinfulness and call upon the Lord for mercy and forgiveness (Js 4:6-10).

Why the Mormon hope is not the Christian hope:

1. It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet. This is "exaltation," and depends upon the Mormon "Plan of Eternal Progression."
2. The hope of Mormon females depends upon their being married, in a temple ceremony, to a Mormon male who achieves exaltation.
3. Mormon women married to non-Mormons ("Gentiles") can arrange for a "temple sealing" (marriage by proxy) to a Mormon male after their death. This is to assure that in eternity they are considered to have been married to and produced their children from a Mormon husband so that they and their children can be exalted.
   
4. Mormon males expect to produce offspring in heaven with their mate(s), offspring who will subsequently be sent to populate their planet and achieve their own exaltation to godhood and so on and so on…

Christian answer:

1. The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made man for Himself and in His image to be in communion with God and enter into the love of the Holy Trinity.
   
2. When man fell into sin and marred the image of God in his own being, the second person of the Trinity became incarnate — taking human nature to Himself.
   
3. He then did what He could not do in the form of God: He died to save us from sin and death, so that we could come back into communion with God and share the love of the Holy Trinity. Our hope is to be with God, not to be God (Gn 1-3; Phil 2:5-11).

When Talking to a Mormon

Remember that the Mormon is trained to hide the difference between his beliefs and yours and to present himself as a Christian. However, his belief that he is a Christian is sincere, and his efforts to hide the distinctives of the Mormon religion are pursued in his desire to get you to accept Mormon teachings.

Do not allow glib, surface responses to go unchallenged; press the Mormon to define the Christian-sounding words he is using.

Define your own terms also. Draw the contrast for the Mormon. Calmly and clearly insist that what you and he believe about the nature of God, the identity of Jesus, the nature of man, salvation and eternal life are different. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

Appeal to his honesty and sense of fairness. You might say, "Look, we are not going to get anywhere unless we are honest with each other. Without making any statement about which one of us is right, can't we just acknowledge that we do not worship the same God?" or "Can't we just acknowledge that we do not have the same hope for the future?" Help the Mormon to consider the logical and philosophical problems with the Plan of Eternal Progression.

If God had a Father and He had a Father and so on — then who was the first God? Mormons say it is an "infinite regression." But since there is no way to cross an infinite distance or pass an infinite amount of time, there would be no way to get to "now" and to "us" from an infinite past. Time has to have had a beginning and it did. It began with the creation "of all things seen and unseen" by God. Mormons say that God is omnipotent (almighty, all-powerful), yet they say there are many Gods. There cannot be more than one omnipotent being, so the Mormon conception of God is shrunken and distorted.

A big selling point of the Mormon hope for the future is the idea that families will be together eternally. But if Mormons become Gods of planets and then their children become Gods of other planets — how do the children and parents get together? Can a God leave his planet unattended while he goes to a celestial family reunion? This Mormon selling point would be diminished if we Christians were more vocal about our hope for the "new heavens and new earth" in which we know one another in the all the relationships of our present lives, only in glory (2 Pt 3:13; Rv 21:1).

Welcome the participation of Mormons in causes which we share for the common good: strengthening family life, fighting pornography and abortion, fostering the virtue of patriotism. We honor each Mormon as a person who desires what is genuinely good for himself, his family and his society — and when we share the truths of the Christian faith with him.

[xzins]

You are essentially wrong.

You overlook that God allowed this creation, that he knew the total future details of, to proceed.

[kidd]

You are correct.

[Between the Lines]

Call me sacrilegious if you must, but to me the most likely scenario is that we were seeded here on this planet by travelers from space.

That chariot of the god's stuff is so 80s. Don't you know that we are all cosmic tourists that willed ourselves to be born here just for the adventure.

[Doohickey]

Kindly explain why posting this sort of article is an expression of good Christian values?

Or, does dragging others down make you feel more secure?

[Mrs. Don-o]

The Catholic Church doesn't have any teaching, one way or the other, on other planets being inhabited with intelligent life. We neither endorse it nor rule it out.

The Catholic Church does teach, however, the existence of bodiless spiritual entities, both good ones and bad ones. Though they are not physical, they have the power to "organize" a physical appearance. I have no doubt that false scriptures (Koran, Book of Mormon, what have you) and false apparitions (some of the strange "Marian" apparitions --- not endorsed by the Church ---which produced false prophecies and disobedience) may well have involved rebellious spiritual entities who successfully deceived the credulous.

[It's me]

?????

[NYer]

Kindly explain why posting this sort of article is an expression of good Christian values?

This article provides clear information about the Mormon Church. Ecumenically, it is important to have a clear understanding of other denominations.

Or, does dragging others down make you feel more secure?

How does this article drag anyone down?

[SaltyJoe]

1 Corinthians 13: 6, "(Love) does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth."

By the authority of Christ, Himself, the Church must define what is of God and what is not. Mormons may parallel Christian values, but the fruit of the LDS Church is not in Communion with Christ's teachings or with the Covenant of the Old Testament.

"Or, does dragging others down make you feel more secure?"

Are your feelings hurt? Did you expect a reverse of reason from Christians? With words like that, chances are you'll get a better audience with Saint Michael.

Concerning the accusation of "dragging" down others, I've been pitted against religious salesmen who attempt interrupt my time to turn me against my Christian faith. The experience is far worse a drag on my life than the time I volunteer to look at a web site.

You can go toe to toe with a militant Catholic; or, you can read, not like what you see, and switch to a different article. For centuries, Christians have been tolerating unpopularity from others far worse than a rejecting democratic society--you can tolerate reasonable criticism too.

[Eastbound]

"Or, does dragging others down make you feel more secure?"

Interesting question. Seems that it's difficult to embark on a spiritual journey without dragging some baggage with you. And it's the baggage that aborts the journey.

'What'cha got in the bag, initiate?'
'Oh, just a couple of books on who I should condemn.'
'They are pretty heavy, lad. Heavy enough to sink your boat.'
'Hmmm. What do you suggest?'
'Are you a good swimmer?'
'The best! Olympic medals! See? I always wear them.'
'Your medals will attract the sharks.'
'I see. Can I wear my T-Shirt that says, 'My religion is better than your religion?' 'No. Your religion is not going to save you.'
'What about my Tux? Can I bring it?'
'Filthy rags!'
'How 'bout my Harley boots?'
'I'll make that one exception. Come aboard!'

[Maeve]

BRAVA!

[Coleus]

I once read that when you sign up for g mail, google has a right to read the content of your e mails that you send and receive.

[Coleus]

They get to wear the magical underpants. >>

I heard about that, something that they have to wear a certain type of underwear. I wonder how this custom came about.

[Coleus]

George Nouhry is a Catholic, I wonder how he can believe that aliens crated this world and implanted it with humans. Or is it that as a radio host he just goes along with his guests and ensures people call in. FYI Art Bell, worked at ITT in Nutley.

[Coleus]

I have a friend who joined the lds church for about a yr. and this is where I learned a bit about it.. they do believe that there are 3 separate gods, they are made of flesh, and that god the father has parents, and when you die, you can either live in "heaven" with god the father, or the son or the holy spirit, depending on how you lived your life, living with god the father would be the better of the three. Also, when you die, you live with your family, and that the more children you have the better.

but what happens if you are widowed and you remarry and have more kids and what happens if one of the spouses gets sent to hell or to heaven with god the holy spirit, while you live with god the father? It's a bit confusing. He didn't get to the point of wearing special underwear nor did he go to the special temple which is supposed to resemble heaven, where you need an ID card to get in.

I understand the BSA has a special handbook just for mormon scouts too..

[NYer]

A former manager is a high ranking Mormon and now resides in Salt Lake City. He loved to engage Christians in religious discussion. Those conversations pointed out my poor grasp of catholic catechesis. But, as the author or the above article notes, my boss carefully shielded their true beliefs from me, positing the Mormon faith as christian.

As for George Nhoury, he truly believes in aliens.

[Gamecock]

Many of the GRPL got into major trouble for criticizing or disagreeing with LDS members.

I've lost count.

[Mrs. Don-o]

There is no Catholic doctrine which would find anything objectionable in visiting, colonizing, or even "seeding" other planets.

I realize you asked about "Christian," rather than specifically "Catholic" teachings, but I'm answering in terms of Catholic because (1) with the Orthodox, the Catholics are the oldest historic Christian Church, and (2) unlike many Christian denominations, the Catholic Church has a body of explicit, written doctrines which are propounded on the basis of a permanent authority. They are quite definite. There's even a search engine so you can look up the most imporant doctrines at:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

T'aint like you need to get different people's opinions, or do any guessing about it.

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

I believe they're called "Temple garments."

[Ragtop]

UNfortunately many of the author's assumptions about what Mormons believe are wrong. Sorry.

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

FYI Art Bell, worked at ITT in Nutley.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

:))