Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Vanity of Their Minds: Sola Scriptura
www.archangelsbooks.com ^ | Fr. John Whiteford

Posted on 10/04/2005 7:51:36 PM PDT by JohnRoss

Sola Scriptura In the Vanity of Their Minds by Fr. John Whiteford

AN ORTHODOX EXAMINATION OF THE PROTESTANT TEACHING Introduction: Are Protestants Beyond Hope?

Since my conversion from Evangelical Protestantism to the Orthodox Faith, I have noted a general amazement among many of those who have been raised Orthodox that a Protestant could be converted. This is not because they are uncertain about their own faith, usually they are just amazed that anything could break through a Protestants stubborn insistence on being wrong! What I have come to understand is that most Orthodox people have a confused and limited grasp of what Protestantism is, and where its adherents are coming from. Thus when "cradle Orthodox" believers have their run-ins with Protestants, even though they often use the same words, they do not generally communicate because they do not speak the same theological language — in other words, they have no common theological basis to discuss their differences. Of course when one considers the some twenty thousand plus differing Protestant groups that now exist (with only the one constant trait of each group claiming that it rightly understands the Bible), one must certainly sympathize with those that are a bit confused by them.

(Excerpt) Read more at archangelsbooks.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; orthodoxy; protestant
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-188 next last
To: ByGraceThroughFaith

***Can there be no discussion of the problems of sola scriptura....***

Evidently not since YOU refuse to discuss Sola Scriptura. When you want to start discussing Sola Scriptura and quit discussing Solo Scriptura, then get back to me. Until then, I'll simply continue to point out that what you are talking about is NOT Sola Scriptura even if you label it as such.

As for an excellent beginners source to begin to understand the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, may I refer you to the introduction of "Putting Amazing back into Grace" by Mike Horton ( from which I have already cited on this thread ).


141 posted on 10/05/2005 12:41:44 PM PDT by Lord_Calvinus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: newberger

The debate has revolved around the Catholic/Protestant aspect of the issue for several reasons.

1) With a little tweaking of the author's POV, there is little difference is his stance and that of a Catholic. Some observational asides of his about papal authority notwithstanding.

2) Given that substantial agreement, and given that most of the people taking the non-Sola Scriptura position here happen to be Catholic, it naturally follows that most of these folks will base their claims against Sola Scriptura from within their own confessional boundaries.

3) Fr. Whitehead being the exception that proves the rule, there is generally very little debate on record between Protestants and Orthodox on this, or any other issue. The Orthodox do not really have a horse directly involved in the debates with Protestants over the last 500 years, and they show little inclination to so engage. They mostly engage themselves and Catholics over nuances involving the first seven Ecumenical Councils, or, again with Catholics, with the remaining Catholic Ecumenical Councils and their disagreements with them. Sola Scriptura does not figure in, since neither Church professes it.

4) Realistically, in North America at least, this debate has *always been* something of a turf war between Catholics and Protestants. The author's background notwithstanding, his basic points will be seized upon by Catholics as relevant to their own continual debate with Protestants on this issue.


142 posted on 10/05/2005 12:52:55 PM PDT by magisterium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]

To: Lord_Calvinus
"Ah, but there is only one single definition of Sola Scriptura. I can't help it if you simply want to ignore that, make up your own definitions and move on from there. That was the same spirit in the Arminian (Remonstrants) who just changed whatever they wanted per the doctrine of Solo Scriptura."

No need to get upset.

"For your information, I have consulted more than one Reformer on the proper definitions and applications of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura before writing on this thread (even citing from one of them), which every good Sola Scripturist will do before heading down the donney brook lane of Solo Scriptura."

Which of the Reformers? Specifically, which writings?
143 posted on 10/05/2005 1:43:49 PM PDT by ByGraceThroughFaith (John 17:20-23)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; Lord_Calvinus; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Quester; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...

Without even reading the article I can understand what the problem is. You all don't see things the way I do.


144 posted on 10/05/2005 2:43:05 PM PDT by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; Lord_Calvinus; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Quester; xzins; ...

Pinging you to my post #111.


145 posted on 10/05/2005 3:14:13 PM PDT by HarleyD ("...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD; ByGraceThroughFaith; Lord_Calvinus; Gamecock; xzins; blue-duncan; Buggman
Personally I think this is the way God designed it-almost like the tower of Babel-so that we would not think we are so wise.

I think that is an apt analogy. By the time Luther had come along the Church had become a overweight behemoth where tradition no longer supplemented scripture, but in many cases had replaced it. Personally I like the fact that there are hundreds of different sects within what ought to be called orthodox christianity. I think it minimizes error inasmuch as nearly every sect including the right honorable Roman sect has at least some error but most of those errors involve ancillary rather than primary doctrinal disputes. (Of course most of those sects split off because they considered those ancillary positions to be primary).

The emergence of sectarian division has not divided the church, but in many ways it has united it. It has given us all the opportunity to "prove all things and hold fast that which is good." In Luther's day, if you tried to "prove all things" and disagreed with the powers that be, often the only thing you would prove is that human flesh reaches flash point at about 500 degrees Farenheit.

Each individual believer is admonished to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. Each individual believer is admonsished to prove all things. Each individual believer is admonished to search the scriptures to know whether these things be true. In a centralized heirarchy, "The Thinking Has Been Done." When you reach that point, you have reached the pinnacle of the Tower of Babel. It is then time to scatter the masses.

146 posted on 10/05/2005 3:33:20 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe; HarleyD; ByGraceThroughFaith; Lord_Calvinus; Gamecock; xzins; blue-duncan
Very, very well said, my friend. Amen.
147 posted on 10/05/2005 4:17:34 PM PDT by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe; ByGraceThroughFaith; Lord_Calvinus; Gamecock; xzins; blue-duncan; Buggman; ...

Yep.

The way I see it in Heaven the Catholics will be in charge of the ceremony, the Reformers in charge of the teaching, the Methodists in charge of the music, and the PDL crowd in charge of the Powerpoint presentations. :O)


148 posted on 10/05/2005 5:47:30 PM PDT by HarleyD ("...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: JohnRoss
I am not about to tone down my language about one of the greatest villian in Christian history: Martin Luther.

Yours is not a very good witness for the Christ!

b'shem Y'shua

149 posted on 10/05/2005 5:59:37 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD; Buggman; blue-duncan; xzins
The way I see it in Heaven the Catholics will be in charge of the ceremony...

So they're the ones who will volunteer for all that bull entrail cleaning, huh?

150 posted on 10/05/2005 6:01:41 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe; HarleyD; Buggman; xzins

We baptists will be in charge of taking the offering, communion (so there will be no hard stuff for the Presbyterians and Episcopalians), baptisms (no baby stuff)and the coffee bar.


151 posted on 10/05/2005 6:11:15 PM PDT by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

***Is this Protestant bashing week on Free Republic?
Perhaps we should post some chapters from Alexander Hislop's Classic Scottish Presbyterian thesis on Babylon.***

The Two Babylons!

Let's show the Salt Lake people that we can discuss and argue scripture without hitting the "abuse" button and crying "He's saying bad things about my religion", which is why we don't have any "good times" with them anymore.


152 posted on 10/05/2005 7:36:42 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn, the best firehose is an AK-47.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
The Two Babylons!

You forgot the link.

153 posted on 10/05/2005 7:47:53 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: Sam the Sham

I do not consider Jehovah's Witnesses as Christian as they deny the Trinity. As for Seventh -day... considered a cult by many. I don't think they are "Protestant". I may be wrong.


154 posted on 10/05/2005 10:58:47 PM PDT by irishtenor (At 270 pounds, I am twice the bike rider Lance is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: ByGraceThroughFaith

***I'm asking a very simple question. If scripture alone as a sole rule of faith is sufficient to establish the truth of Christianity, why are there hundreds of disagreeing sects based upon the bible?***

And I answered your question. I do not believe that there are "Hundreds" of competing sects, but there are many. And most of them differ in their government, or in the interpetation of some text or the application of various things. Some, like your mention of the difference in the ELCA and the LCMS, have to do with a liberal verses conservative application to the Bible. (Just like in your church).

***The only difference between Saddleback, the local PCA congregation, the local Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is a minor and insignificant disagreements over leadership structure?***
I didn't say this was the "Only" difference, those are your interpetations of what I said.


155 posted on 10/05/2005 11:09:02 PM PDT by irishtenor (At 270 pounds, I am twice the bike rider Lance is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe; Buggman; blue-duncan; xzins
So they're the ones who will volunteer for all that bull entrail cleaning, huh?

Let them have it. :O)

156 posted on 10/06/2005 1:40:02 AM PDT by HarleyD ("...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: JohnRoss
Cross-referencing bump.

157 posted on 10/06/2005 3:32:42 AM PDT by .30Carbine (In the begininning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ByGraceThroughFaith
Many of them are out of man's pride. A perceived snub or error has caused many churches to split.

The point though is this, PROTESTant churches are not Sola Scriptura in the sense that many think, to include modern Evangelicals.

(My original question still stands)

158 posted on 10/06/2005 4:28:30 AM PDT by Gamecock (Crystal meth is not a fruit of the Spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Sam the Sham

The hundreds of Catholic churches who claim to be the true Church.


159 posted on 10/06/2005 4:29:36 AM PDT by Gamecock (Crystal meth is not a fruit of the Spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: magisterium
You should be glad that the Catholic Church is actually more aware of God's mercy than most other Christian bodies today are.

Not according to the Council of Trent. Seems like we are anathema.

Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone...let him be anathema.

Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins...or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.

Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy (supra, chapter 9), which remits sins for Christ's sake...let him be anathema.

Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 30. If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Canon 32. If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, and eternal life...let him be anathema.

160 posted on 10/06/2005 5:24:30 AM PDT by Gamecock (Crystal meth is not a fruit of the Spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180181-188 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson