Posted on 08/28/2005 7:04:42 PM PDT by buckeyesrule
Friday, August 26, 2005 12:01 a.m.
It is one thing to help 25 million readers find purpose in their lives. It is another when one of those readers is the man responsible for ending what journalist Samantha Power has called "the most clear-cut case of genocide since the Holocaust." Paul Kagame, Rwanda's president, was so impressed by Rick Warren's best-selling book, "The Purpose-Driven Life," that he invited the founding preacher of California's Saddleback Church to come to his country. Mr. Warren not only accepted but asked his network of believers to come to Rwanda in small groups to plant churches, care for the sick, educate the citizenry and assist the poor.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
I did not say Warren was naive or shallow. But I don't think it's bashing him to wonder if he knows what he's getting into.
I cannot discern Rick Warren's heart. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
CC&E
Indeed, may God's will be done!
Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
Well that tells me that The President of Rwanda's heart was turned by God. From reading the article it is pretty obvious that Rick Warren's heart was turned to the people of Rwanda. I am optimistic that God is going to use Rick Warren for His work. But then I also believe that God is using Rick Warren right where he is.
Consider youre the leader of a great church movement, have written a block buster book and youre now in control of millions of dollars in funds and vast amount of resources. The ruler of one of the worst improvised countries calls you on the phone and tells you that he has read your book and would like you to come to his country. He doesnt invite the Pope although 95% of the masses are Catholic. He doesnt even invite a number of Cardinals or Bishops for a conference on how to stop the bloodshed and end poverty. Instead he invites you that have had no previous ties to the country before, simply (so he says) from reading your book.
Is this Gods divine plan or isnt it? How would you feel, someone who went from obscurity to stardom overnight, to receive a call from the President of a country asking for help? Wouldnt you be honored; faltered? Would you be willing to turn down the opportunity? There would be a million reasons to rationalize why you SHOULD go but what are the reasons NOT to go?
The children of Israel, when they heard about the giants in the land lost heart about going into the Promise Land. God told them not to go but they felt they had repented and God would bless their action. They were wrong and suffered a severe defeat. God said they acted presumptuously. (Deut 1)
The article states the President called to ask Pastor Warren over. It also states, Mr. Warren not only accepted but asked his network of believers to come to Rwanda in small groups to plant churches, care for the sick, educate the citizenry and assist the poor. Its one thing to be called over for a discussion. Its quite another to go galloping in with a cavalry. In my business this is what is known as scope creep and it alway leads to disaster with budget overruns, undeliverable performance, etc. And the mission is so broad you could drive a truck through it.
This isnt like funding a bunch of doctors to go help bury the dead or help heal children. This is an ill defined mission with impossible objectives and increase scope to name but a few and has all the ear markings of disaster.
No matter how noble the cause, Americans have a habit of running to the rescue to people who really dont want us around. It ends up costing us millions (or billions) and then we try to figure out how to declare victory and leave. We never stop to look at the social or moral climate of the society or the implications it may cause.
And it's worst when you add Christianity into the mix. It's "God will take care of us" just like the children of Israel thought. When things go south non-Christians point at Christians and rightfully criticize us.
For my money I would rather finance doctors to go in and heal the sick. If Rick Warren and other Christians wants to pour millions into Rwanda without a clearly define mission, objectives, and scope then by all means have at it and may God be gracious. OTOH, without these things I predict after Pastor Warren has poured millions of dollars into the country it will be no better off but someone will declare success.
Call me a prophet. Heres a rock. Stone me if Im wrong.
As for me, I lean to "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." (Zec 4:6)
IOW, it doesn't matter if it is one missionary or a hundred thousand - whether they are well funded or don't have a penny among them - if God is in the mission, it will succeed. And if He is not, then no amount of money or power will result in success.
If that's all you're going on, that's a HUGE leap of faith and more likely presumption. I truly hope that it goes as you believe it will, and I will be the first to say that my hesitancy to endorse it was unfounded should it produce good fruit, but will you be as quick to admit that we were right should Warren's efforts fail, or the Rwandan President turns out to be a liar, and the whole thing turn out to be a scam?
Seems to me you're putting an awful lot of faith in the word of an unknown man.
It is obvious that Rick Warren is taking a leap of faith. If he had guarantees from accountants and planners and contrubutors that everything he was going to do was going to be successful before he made the decision to go forward then he wouldn't be stepping out on faith, he would be walking on the assurances of his advisors.
Obviously you don't believe Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will" or you would know that the decision of the Rwandan president to call upon Rick Warren was guided by the very hand of God. I believe that the Rwandan president would have no power to invite Rick Warren if it had not been granted to him by God.
I didn't see you this concerned when John Piper prayed for and called for missionaries to be sent to Rwanda. It appears to me that Warren's committment here is a response to that prayer. It appears to me that Warren is putting feet to his faith and is committing to do the work of God whatever that work is. He was called to Rwanda. If the heart of the Rwandan president is in the hand of God, then I think it is safe to conclude that God's hand was in the invitation. Warren's heart was changed by the visit. Frankly I can't imagine anything bad coming of this, even if the Rwandan president has ulterior motives. What he may intend for evil, God intends for good.
How's it going, Woody?
Settle down ctd. CC&E is not Woody.
She might even tell you that herself.
If God could cause Pharoh to release the Israelites, He can motivater the president of Rwanda to permit Warren to go to Rwanda and serve God.
the attitude of some on this thread is similar to those who refused to obey God when he commanded them to enter the Promised Land and wound up spending another generation in the desert.
Come on Harley, I don't throw stones. God has not called you to this vision of the mission. He has something else for you just as important, but don't despise the day of small beginnings. Just like Elijah, there's a small cloud beginning on the horizon and it promises bountiful needed rain where once was drought. If this is God's doing He will provide all that's necessary, including administrators, planners, logistics and most of all His Spirit.
"We're marching on with hearts courageous
We will follow where You want us to
And should You lead us where the battle rages
Let us march with hearts courageous after You."
We are commanded to be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. So far I haven't seen much wisdom displayed by the "anything-Rick-does-must-be-of-God" crowd. It's rapidly becoming the "if-Calvinists-question-it-Rick-must-be-doing-God's-Will" crowd.
I think there are a lot of people here being contrary just to be contrary.
For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. - Acts 5:34-39
Sorry to disappoint!
CC&E
I'm putting my faith in Proverbs 21:1. So what if it is a scam? Does that mean that God's hand is not in it? Does that mean that God will not be glorified in Warren's step of faith? God does not require that we be sucessful in our steps of faith. He does require that we take them. He also promises us rewards for taking them whether they are sucessful or not.
Warren is taking a step of faith. If he had guarantees of his success, then it would not be a step of faith. I like the idea that he is going into this with his eyes closed. I like the fact that he appears to be naieve. It appears to me that God opened this door for his church's ministry. Warren sure didn't go looking for this opportunity, it came looking for him. To me that is evidence that God's hand is in it. But then it seems to me that I am the real Calvinist on this thread today.
Sort of like the Synod of Dort's "If the Remonstrants are for it, we are against it" attitude?
If you read what the Remonstrants actually spelled out rather that the Calvinist stereotypes of it, you'd find it to be quite Biblical. The biggest contention of Calvinists is that the Remonstrants rejected eternal security, when it is obvious the majority position amongst the Remonstrants clearly supported eternal security.
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