Posted on 08/22/2005 6:26:33 PM PDT by sionnsar
**The bigger question here is this: The RC church, despite of the multitude of disagreements I have with the on a wide variety of issues, does have sin and Christ woven throughout their doctrine.**
Thanks for the compliment!
Nice post....
"You're ok - but Jesus can make you better!"
The notion that if you come to Jesus, He will make your life here all better is a false notion amoung evanglicals for a long time.
On the contrary, Jesus said that when the world hates you as followers of Christ, be reminded that they hated Him first. And, Jesus promised in John 24, "In this world you will have tribulation, but take heart, for I have overcome the world."
Jesus did not come to make bad people good, or to make one's material life in this existence all better and free of problems.
No, Jesus came to give dead people life.
"Straight is the way and narrow the gate that leads to eternal life, and there are few that find it."--Jesus Christ
I guess Jonah did it all wrong:
Jonah 3: 4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!” 5 And the people of Nineveh believed God. They called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them.
I guess Jonathon Edwards got it all wrong too in his sermon, "Siiners in the Hands of an angry God", sparking the Great Awakening.
Preaching the consequences of the Law is love, but there are some who are loving people straight into hell.
At the very onset of Christ's preaching:
"From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." - Mt. 4:17
Pretty straight forward to me. Nothing about "making withdrawals and deposits into someone's Emotional Bank Account" there.
You can't love God, and you certainly can't love your neighbor unless you've first repented of your sin. The love comes from His forgiveness of our iniquity, which is forgiven once repentance is made.
The unsaved cannot love with a Godly motive, only a worldly (and thus selfish) one.
Technically, didn't Edwards' sermon propel the Great Awakening, not start it? Seems someone mentioned that the other day.
Not discounting Edwards, just trying to get my history right.
Not discounting Edwards, just trying to get my history right.
I guess that would technically be correct. BUt it was a rather powerful propulsion, much like having a 2 month old child suddenly shoot up to 12.
I wouldn't want to discount George Whitefield's, or even John Wesley's contributions either.
Agreed.
Don't tell anyone..... ;-)
Historically speaking, the Great Awakening appears to have had it's beginning among a group of pastors in Scotland who had begun meeting for what they called, "A Concert of Prayer" many years before, including Edwards.
You are correct. Edwards' sermon was by no means the spark which lit it.
http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0591_Edwards_-_Concerts_o.html
Thanks. I just picked up a book on Church History. But I'll hang onto the site in case the book is not...complete. ;-)
It's my pleasure.
"Yes, I greatly value the role of Lector, of reading the Scripture lessons aloud during services.
"My reading duties begin this Sunday."
God bless you, friend. It is a great responsibility to
read the Scriptures before the people. It is a great ministry.
In October of 1744, a number of ministers in Scotland, considering the state of God's Church, and mankind in general, believed that God was calling those concerned for the welfare of the Church to unite in extraordinary prayer. They knew God was the Creator and source of all blessings and benefits in the Church so they earnestly prayed that He would appear in His glory, and strengthen the Church, and manifest His compassion to the world of mankind by an abundant outpouring of His Holy Spirit. They desired a true revival in all parts of Christendom, and to see nations delivered from their great and many calamities, and to bless them with the unspeakable benefits of the Kingdom of our glorious Redeemer, and to fill the whole earth with His glory.
These ministers consulted with one another on this subject and concluded that they were obliged to begin such prayer and attempt to persuade others to do the same. After seeking God for direction, they determined that for the next two years they would set apart some time on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings every week for prayer as one's other duties would allow. More importantly, it was decided that the first Tuesday of each quarter (beginning with the first Tuesday of November) would be time to be spent in prayer. People were to pray for either the entire day or part of the day, as they found themselves disposed, or as circumstances allowed. They would meet in either private prayer groups or in public meetings, whichever was found to be most convenient.
It was determined that none should make any promises or feel under strict obligation to observe every one of these days without fail; for these days were not holy or established by sacred authority. However, to prevent negligence, and the temptation to make excuses for trivial reasons, it was proposed that if those who resolve to pray cannot take part on the agreed upon day, they would use the next available day for the purpose of prayer.
The primary reason for this cooperation in prayer was to maintain, among the people of God, that necessity of prayer for the coming of Christ's Kingdom, which Christ directed his followers to do. We are, unfortunately, too little inclined to pray because of our laziness and immaturity, or because of the distraction of our own worldly, private affairs. We have prayed at times, but without special seasons for prayer, we are, likely, to neglect it either partially or totally. But when we set aside certain times for prayer, resolving to fulfill this commission unless extraordinarily hindered, we are less likely to neglect it.
The return of each new season will naturally refresh the memory and will cause us to remember these teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the obligations we have as His followers. We will be renewed in the importance, necessity and unspeakable value of the mercy we seek from God, and by frequent renovation, the vision to pray will be kept alive in our hearts at all times. Therefore, those ministers from Scotland determined that such gatherings would help encourage greater prayerfulness among God's people for revival throughout the year. They also believed that the quarterly gathering would encourage and strengthen people to pray, especially if they knew that many other Christians in so many distant places were praying for the same things at a same time.
It was thought that two years would be a sufficient trial period, after which time would be given to evaluate fruitfulness of the endeavor. It was not known but thought best to allow some time to make some adjustments if necessary. The time period, though short, was thought sufficient to judge its fruitfulness. Those involved would have the opportunity to communicate their thoughts, and perhaps improve, on this manner of prayer.
As for promulgating this concert of prayer, the ministers decided to simply pass the word through personal conversation, and correspondence with others far away, rather than any formal advertisement in the press. At first it was intended that some formal paper outlining the proposal should be sent around for proper amendments and improvements, and then agreement. But after more thoughtful deliberation, it was concluded that this would only give rise to objections which they thought best to avoid in the beginning.
Great success seems to have met their labors for great numbers in Scotland and England, and even some in North America joined with them. As to Scotland, many people in the four chief cities, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, and Dundee joined. There were also many country towns and congregations in various other areas that participated. A Mr. Robe, of Kilsyth, stated that "There were then above thirty societies of young people there, newly erected, some of which consisted of upwards of thirty members."
The two years ended last November. Just prior to this, a number of ministers in Scotland agreed on a letter, to be printed and sent abroad to their brethren, proposing to them, and requesting of them, to join with them in continuing this concert of prayer, and in the endeavors to promote it. Almost five hundred copies of this letter were sent over to New England, with instructions to distribute them to the Massachusetts-Bay area, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Carolina and Georgia. Most were sent to a congregational minister in Boston along with a letter from twelve ministers in Scotland. Other copies were sent to other ministers in Boston, and some to a minister in Connecticut.
The proposal, dated August 26, 1746, opens with an explanation of the purpose and times for the concerts of prayer, and an entreaty to the ministers to communicate their opinions after the two year period had completed.
The ministers then go on to assure their Bostonian brethren that the concerts are not to be seen as binding; men are not expected to set apart days from secular affairs, or "fix on any part of ... precise days, whether it be convenient or not." Nor are they to be seen as "absolute promises, but as friendly, harmonious resolutions, with liberty to alter circumstances as shall be found expedient." Because of such liberty these prayer times cannot be judged to infringe upon those "religious times" appointed by men.
The letter also asked ministers to consider composing and publishing short "persuasive directions" regarding the necessity of prayer, either by particular authors or several joining together. Without such repeated reminders men are apt to become weary and begin to neglect their duty. Ministers are also asked to preach frequently on the importance and necessity of prayer for the coming of the Lord's Kingdom, particularly near or on the quarterly times.
The Boston ministers are to understand that these prayer concerts are not restricted to any particular denomination, but is extended to all who have "at heart the interest of vital Christianity, and the power of godliness; and who, however differing about other things, are convinced of the importance of fervent prayer ..."
It was proposed that the prayer should extend for seven more years and the ministers agreed to this. However there was concern that zeal for spreading news of the concert would wane because of the length proposed. Nevertheless, it was agreed that the first period of time (two years) was too short.
If persons who formerly agreed to this concert should discontinue it, would it not look like that fainting in prayer Scripture so ardently warned against? Would this not be particularly unsuitable given the need of public reformation?
Those ministers in Boston said of this proposal: "The motion seems to come from above, and to be wonderfully spreading in Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland and North America."
***the rest of the neeners***
What is a neener????
where did I say otherwise - we just disagree as to how we reach that end - cart / horse...horse / cart
a group of folks - hey marlowe - what exactly are we ?
were not a ping list, not are we all arminians. I think were all guys
weve got some really cool undie garmies - we'd post a pic, but such irreverence, rather than lighten the mood, tends to aggavate some.
I defer to marlowe for a complete definition
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.