Posted on 08/22/2005 6:26:33 PM PDT by sionnsar
As this piece points out, the churches where you are least likely to hear Scripture read during services are often those where the authority and teaching of Scripture are most emphasized, particularly evangelical churches. Strange, but true. And the writer’s experience is that even Anglican evangelical churches often read Scripture in their worship less.
My personal experience as one with a evangelical/fundamentalist background? My current REC church is the first of my church homes where Scripture is regularly read during services outside the context of the sermon.
I think this is one way is which evangelical-style worship impoverishes itself. As I’ve experienced first hand, there is a power to formally reading the raw word of God in worship. I'd much rather sit and listen to the reading of Scripture than sing one more “praise and worship” song. And Scripture reading is a prominent feature of Jewish and Christian worship through the centuries. Why cut oneself off from that?
Yes, I greatly value the role of Lector, of reading the Scripture lessons aloud during services.
My reading duties begin this Sunday.
Go ahead, you want to bust out Schuller? I'll join you. (BTW you do seem to constantly refer to some of the wayward "Reformed" leaders and Churches as examples of reformation leaders, don't you c*ounselor)
Frankly GC, I'm disappointed in you for not calling Herman on his profane comments about Joel Osteen's appearance. Instead, you picked up the ball and ran with it. The thread deterorated accordingly.
If I were to call Herrmann, a professing believer on the carpet, it shouldn't be in public anyway, should it? And don't pull this nonsense that I see coming a mile away about the doctrinal discussions we have, they are just that, discussions.
Look at what this thread was about. It was about a non-evangelical who was supposedly shocked that there was not enough "scripture reading" at an evangelical church.
/cut/
profane criticism of his looks
How in the world does a comment about their looks fall out as profane marlowe? If you think that is profane, maybe you better look deep inside yourself and do some soul searching yourself.
The fact is, the MSM is casting Osteen as the new face of the Evangelical church. If Christians don't stand up to him and your buddy Warren, the church will rapidly become full of tares and inward looking souls who will never hear the Gospel, and you know it.
The profanity here (on FR) is that many Christians will jump aboard the latest pop psychology/cultural trend and think it is the best thing since Christ walked the earth, and you know it. Rather than locking arms with Christians who are serious about the Gospel truth, you would rather attack us at every turn.
Now, if my calculations are correct, this is the point that you will ping one of the mods, or become indignant and ask me not to talk to you anymore. FINE! I'll save you the trouble, I won't discuss your or your inane posts on this thread again if you ignore me.
Only if God wants it that way. Right?
You're not suggesting God needs you and me to change that, are you?
You're not suggesting using God's sovereignty as an excuse for turning a blind eye, are you?
Not at all. Just surprised Gamecock is fretting when God has it all under control.
And yet we are commanded to speak the truth, aren't we?
Indeed we are.
with all respect and every attempt to return this thread to even handed conversation, will someone rationalize this comment despite that weve been told time and time again that if we are elect, we will be saved despite our arminianism. In fact RN came to Christ via the RCC didnt she ?
on top of that, is Joel the sole voice of the gospel - dont these people have brains ? - excpting the big screens, its likely they have a Bible - and Im confident God will reach them despite Osteens feel good message.... and when it does - theyll move on to a meatier church
You cant feed a baby chili - nor can you feed a new believer with Gods holy slap o judgment
You start with love, and forgiveness - building from there into repentance, and a well rounded faith
Good. You can start here.
Pat Robertson is fodder for another thread.
It was a joke. He likes jokes.
Clean your own house.
The fact is, the MSM is casting Osteen as the new face of the Evangelical church. If Christians don't stand up to him and your buddy Warren, the church will rapidly become full of tares and inward looking souls who will never hear the Gospel, and you know it.
It is precisely that most of the "evangelicals"(I'm not even sure what that term means anymore, I used to but it seems to have a different definition these days) have departed from the standard of truth in lieu of postmodernist type emotionalism that has allowed heretics of all flavors to prosper within "evagelicalism"(I do think Benny Hinn and those of his stripe call themselves "evangelicals") and horribly aberant doctrine to permeate "evangelicalism". Biblical ignorance is the root cause, or lazy evangelicals who do not apply the Beran standard who take at face value, in blind faith, the spiritual poison they are fed daily from false teachers.
The profanity here (on FR) is that many Christians will jump aboard the latest pop psychology/cultural trend and think it is the best thing since Christ walked the earth, and you know it.
FR is just one example of spiritual junkies looking for their next craze. Unfortunately, its endemic of most of US evangelicalism.
Rather than locking arms with Christians who are serious about the Gospel truth, you would rather attack us at every turn.
Truth isn't stimulating enough. They require lots of "tickling".
That does not negate the commands of God to preach the Gospel and not a false gospel, to defend the faith and the Church against all who would subvert the Truth of the faith and Church. God condescends to employ His Elect to share in the work laid before the Church.
on top of that, is Joel the sole voice of the gospel
Joel Osteen is not a "voice of the gospel" at all. He is a purveyor of a false gospel that is no gospel(good news) at all.
- dont these people have brains ?
One has to wonder at that one. But then, thanks to gubmint shools, people have been conditioned not to actually engage their brains but to follow a system that is results oriented.
- excpting the big screens, its likely they have a Bible -
I'm sure many do have Bibles, covered in dust, and are too lazy to do the study themselves.
and Im confident God will reach them despite Osteens feel good message
So, you are going to disregard the commands of God to the contrary?
Sounds more like a hyper-Calvinist.
And also to you.
I certainly agree that you have to start with milk before you can move on to the meat. I think part of the problem with Osteen is that they're getting Similac. It's got similar properties to milk, but it's just not milk.
I do disagree with the notion that you have to start with love and forgiveness. Scripture and history are both full of examples of a less-than-gentle presentation of the Gospel. I'm not saying we therefore shouldn't present it in the manner you describe, just that neither way is the only way to do it.
"Good. You can start here."
I already admitted I was overboard on that post. But you just can't exibit grace on that, can you now?
>>You start with love, and forgiveness - building from there into repentance, and a well rounded faith<<
IMO, it ought to be the other way around. How can somoene know why they need love and forgiveness if they don't know what they're being forgiven from? In order to appreciate God's mercy, you have to first understand why you need it.
Which is why in a lot of cases, Osteen's message just comes across as an add-on to the unsaved persons life. It makes Jesus into a holy ATM card.
"You're ok - but Jesus can make you better!"
"Well, great, but if I'm already ok to begin with, why do I need anything else?"
...sort of thing.
>>You start with love, and forgiveness - building from there into repentance, and a well rounded faith<<
I guess Jonah did it all wrong:
Jonah 3: 4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!” 5 And the people of Nineveh believed God. They called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them.
I for one have never said you will be saved despite your Arminianism. Nor will I be saved because of my Calvinism. We are all saved by faith in Christ. That is enough to get us past any error that anyone of us might have.
In fact RN came to Christ via the RCC didnt she ?
I think she would disagree with that.
The bigger question here is this: The RC church, despite of the multitude of disagreements I have with the on a wide variety of issues, does have sin and Christ woven throughout their doctrine. Osteen, Warren, Shuller don't. They are all about wealth, self-help, and prosperity. How can the believe without hearing?
and I could direct to any of 100 verses with Christ talking about love - and you know that
- what is your problem? - I try to be civil and converse and your continue being a point of nuisance and dissention
I'd point out that were under a new covenant - but lo and behold youd find reason to bitch about that as well - so Im abandoning the thread - the rest of the neeners can stomach your nonsense - Ive frankly had my fill
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