Unraveling Jesus' mystery years in Egypt

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | July 29, 2005 | Tom Breen

[Cvengr]

Thank you very much for that edifying post. Good notes for my study and by His spiritual metabolization in my thinking processes.

[Graves]

"The Lord was smart in not putting into the inspired word the month or day of his fleshly birth..."

Based on the Tradition (including, of course, the Holy Scriptures), the Church has determiend that our Lord was born on December 25, A.D. 1 (Julian). You did not know this?

Are you familiar with the Holy Thorn of Glastonbury?
If not, click on http://hocna.org/defense/thorn.htm

[Zuriel]

Your welcome; freely receive, freely give!

[Zuriel]

**Based on the Tradition**

Sometimes I see that there are 'Traditionists' that gladly use science to try to prove a scriptural or 'Traditional' theology.

So, using science, I believe it has been proven that during Dec. thru mid-March the pastures in the high elevations (say, a 20 mile radius around Bethlehem) would have been dormant, even 2,000 yrs ago. Science and historical records have proven that the climate has changed very little over that span. Shepherds would no longer have been in the fields watching the flocks by night. The flocks would be in pens and fed forage, and the shepherds in their homes when the angels sang.

Note how cool it must have been in late March-early April when Peter tried to warm himself by a fire, and the cock was crowing.

I borrowed a book on this very subject years ago, but I will have to research the name.

[Graves]

You don't believe the Church and what she teaches? How sad. It's your funeral.

[Zuriel]

Well, someone named Graves probably knows a thing or two about funerals. :)

Your church does not believe the conversion commanded by the Lord in John 3:3-8 "..thou hearest the sound...so is EVERYONE that is born of the spirit"; Peter (you know, the man some call the first 'pope') in Acts 2:38,39; 10:44-48; and Paul's own conversion in Acts 9:17,18; 22:16. If your church believed it, they would command water and Spirit baptism (I think your church believes in repentance).

I debated others of your persuasion on this forum before. Feel free to read those 'swordfights'.


You say, "How sad. It's your funeral."

Interesting. Oh great almighty mr. Graves, how many have you judged and can confirm are in hell (or heaven)?

[onedoug]

How much do we really know about Jesus?

He was an interesting rabbi.

[investigateworld]

LOL !!! But how did you slip in from an Art Bell thread?

[SaltyJoe]

GASP! You've just discovered the missing link!

It was the extra-terrestial aliens that recorded the teenager Jesus' rock hits while touring the London pubs! They probably bought all his albums and will sell them at a moment when we, Earthling simpletons, will buy them for everything we own and even use all of our credit (since Christianity is getting more and more popular).

Our zealous splurge of buying vintage Jesus' rock albums (and who can forget the live acoustic show at London Bank?...that's the place before they built that bridge there). This interstellar marketing move will cause global financial collapse and utter ruin. They're just waiting for proper copyright protection to keep illegal copies from getting on the web. Then they won't have to use high-tech laser rays or mind manipulating drugs to control us, they'll just use our own maxed-out credit debt to keep us enslaved.

I bet if I scour E-Bay hard enough, I'll find that one of the alien conspirators has double crossed his friends and is trying to make a space gazoonie dollar on the side. Let see, what such I put in the search engine? "Teenage Jesus' rock album tour of England (or London)...AD" with additional "acoustic version".

[Clemenza]

Puts me in mind of "Jesus, the Missing Years":

It was raining. It was cold

West Bethlehem was no place for a twelve year old

So he packed his bags and he headed out

To find out what the world's about

He went to France. He went to Spain

He found love. He found pain.

He found stores so he started to shop

But he had no money so he got in trouble with a cop

Kids in trouble with the cops

From Israel didn't have no home

So he cut his hair and moved to Rome

It was there he met his Irish bride

And they rented a flat on the lower east side of Rome... Italy that is

Music publishers, book binders, Bible belters, Money Changers,

Spoon Benders and lots of pretty Italian chicks.

Charley bought some popcorn

Billy bought a car

Someone almost bought the farm

But they didn't go that far

Things shut down at midnight

At least around here they do

Cause we all reside down the block

Inside at....23 Skidoo.

Wine was flowing so were beers

So Jesus found his missing years

So He went to a dance and said "This don't move me"

He hiked up his pants and he went to a movie

On his thirteenth birthday he saw "Rebel without a Cause"

He went straight on home and invented Santa Claus

Who gave him a gift and he responded in kind

He gave the gift of love and went out of his mind

You see him and the wife wasn't getting along

So he took out his guitar and he wrote a song

Called "The Dove of Love Fell Off the Perch"

But he couldn't get divorced in the Catholic Church <

P>At least not back then anyhow

Jesus was a good guy he didn't need this shit

So he took a pill with a bag of peanuts and

A Coca-Cola and he swallowed it.

He discovered the Beatles

And he recorded with the Stones

Once He even opened up a three-way package

In Southern California for old George Jones

The years went by like sweet little days

With babies crying pork chops and beaujolais

When he woke up he was seventeen

The world was angry. The world was mean.

Why the man down the street and the kid on the stoop

All agreed that life stank. All the world smelled like poop

Baby poop that is..the worst kind

So he grew his hair long and threw away his comb

And headed back to Jerusalem to find Mom, Dad and home

But when he got there the cupboard was bare

Except for an old black man with a fishing rod

He said "Whatcha gonna be when you grow up?" <

P>Jesus said "God"

Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?

I'm a human corkscrew and all my wine is blood

They're gonna kill me Mama. They don't like me Bud. <

P>So Jesus went to Heaven and he went there awful quick

All them people killed him and he wasn't even sick

So come and gather around me my contemporary peers

And I'll tell you all the story of

Jesus...The Missing Years

[Graves]

"I debated others of your persuasion on this forum before."

I have found nobody of my "persuasion" in any debate with you about anything.

Did you even bother to read the short article about the Holy Thorn at the link I provided you?

Or are you a "know it all"?

[DameAutour]

You think someone can be condemned if they don't believe Jesus was born December 25th, in spite of the strong scriptural evidence that Jesus was in fact NOT born in December?

You don't seem to be making sure of the more important things. When I examine the scriptures with regard to what you are saying, I find:

"One man judges one day as above another; another man judges one day as all others; let each man be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 13:5

"You are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you." Galatians 4:10,11

Quite frankly, it isn't important what day Jesus was born. What is important is that he died, and rose and reigns as King.

The early Christians did not maintain December 25th as the "birthday" of Jesus. Early church fathers like Clement of Alexandria thought Jesus was born in November, other documents indicate maybe March.

December 25th was eventually chosen by the Church because that corresponded with the Roman festival of Saturnalia. It's clearly pagan in origin. As are the Christmas trees, the mistletoe, the "yule log", and other traditions associated with Christmas. They're all pagan in origin.

We should be wary about mixing light with dark, Christ with Belial. But if you insist on celebrating Christmas anyway, you have no standing to judge those who are honest about it.

[Graves]

Well, I can see you are full of opinions.

"Quite frankly, it isn't important what day Jesus was born"

Come back after you've dumped all your opinions and want to discuss questions intelligently.

[DameAutour]

I'm not really trying to learn from you. I was correcting you. If you are a Christian, you should be mindful of correction. You were judging someone because they don't believe Jesus was born on the 25th. This is not a worthy subject to judge someone, as there are no indications from Scripture that Christians must believe Jesus was born on the 25th or on ANY particular date.

[Graves]

"You were judging someone because they don't believe Jesus was born on the 25th. This is not a worthy subject to judge someone, as there are no indications from Scripture that Christians must believe Jesus was born on the 25th or on ANY particular date."

Let's try this again, shall we?

The Church celebrates Christmas on December 25 for a reason and that reason happens to be the obvious one, that Jesus Christ was indeed born on December 25th. The evidence for this is plentiful in the Tradition of the Church and that Tradition obviously is inclusive of Holy Scripture. The details found in Holy Scripture must certainly be important or they would not be found there, now would they?

But on top of that evidence, it is also interesting to note that an annual miracle takes place each year on Christmas Eve, one that has been venerated for centuries by Christian peoples, the annual budding of the Glastonbury Thorn.

For a complete run down on exactly why December 25th (Julian) is indeed the correct date for the Birth of our Lord and Savior, click on the rather lengthy article found at this link: http://www.struggler.org/birth3.htm. If the link fails to work for you, try copying http://www.struggler.org/ into the search bar and then click on the first issue on the menu. Scroll to the article on "Pinpointing Christ's Birth Date". And if that does not work, google up the article using google.com. If, after reading the article in its entirety, you still believe there is more to discuss, by all means ping me and we'll talk. OK?

[righttackle44]

"Titled "Jesus in Egypt," the film is based on a book of the same name by author Paul Perry, widely known for his work on near-death experiences."

Paul Perry is first going to have to explain HOW Jesus spent any YEARS Egypt.

A simple reading of Scripture says that Jesus' parents presented him to at the Temple in Jerusalem, and his
was received by a former High Priest and a Prophetess.
The High Priest pronounced a fulfill prophecy that he
would see the Messiah before he died.

First Century Judaism required, in fulfillment of Scripture, that children had to be presented at the Temple when "the days of her [Miryam's--Mary's] purification according to the Laws of Moses were accomplished." This period was 40 days. Herod died within that same 40 days. [The Scripture is Luke 2:22.}

If Jesus had not been presented that soon, his Messiahship would have been tainted by the violation of Scripture. How could the Jews or anyone else believe in a Messiah who violated his own Word--the Tenakh?

Jesus came to fulfill Scripture, not to supercede it. "Well, I want all of the Jewish children to be presented at the Tempe within 40 days except me?" I really think not.

So where did Joseph and Mary take Jesus when they were warned to flee into Egypt. Probably to Egypt for 40 days Because Herod died, and then they could return.

Then what? They turned around and went BACK to Egypt when everything was then okay, and they could stay at home because Herod had perish? Again, that doesn't make any sense.

Perry's thesis falls apart in view of Scripture.

[Graves]

"Perry's thesis falls apart in view of Scripture."

Has anyone bothered to do the obvious, study the patristic Tradition on the subject?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***March 25th or April 6th. If you add nine months to both of those dates, you get December 25th (Christmas) or January 6th (Epiphany). ***

There is another way of counting.
John the Baptist's father worked in the temple in the course of ABIA which occured about 12-18 Sivan, or June 13-19.
Give him time to get home and his wife conceive John, then 6 months later the Holy Spirit comes upon him. This means Mary would have conceived Jesus about Dec. 25 and his birth would have been about Sept 29.
Conception of John..23 Sivan or June 23-24.
Birth of John...7 Nisan or March 28-29.
Christ begatting... 1 Tebeth or Dec 25.
Nativity...15 Tisri or Sept 29.

All based on when John's father worked in the temple in the course of ABIA.