Possible Liturgical Abuse At My Parish? (VANITY)

My Church | 7/25/05 | Me

[Conservative til I die]

I went to Mass at the parish I occasionally attend yesterday. The Church itself is no great shakes. Not heterodox, but very namby-pamby. So, after the Gospels were read, some women made her way up to the pulpit and to my shock, gave a homily. She was a Maryknoll missionary sister, and in addition to the Homily, was making the case for donations and service to the mission of the Maryknolls.

I can only imagine this is a rather serious form of liturgical abuse. Interestingly, the pastor in one past homily spoke briefly about Buddhism to make some point or other. He didn't talk about Buddhism as the deficient belief system that it is. Also, as we read the Creed after the Homily, he very noticeably omitted the word "men" at the part that reads "For us MEN and our salvation..."

This all concerned me very much. Does anyone know what places I can refer to that might actually act to correct such abuses? I'm in the Archdiocese of NY. Also, would be interested to know if the Maryknoll orders are considered to be liberal. The nun that spoke the homily was almost a dead ringer for Janet Reno. And that's all I will say about that.

[Desdemona]

For a woman to give the sermon is an abuse, yes. That sort of plea belongs in the bulletin or after Mass is over.

[Tax-chick]

Only a priest or deacon is allowed to deliver a homily during Mass. My parish puts missions talks after Communion, as "announcements."

The Maryknoll orders are *very* liberal.

[FourtySeven]

As far as I understand, it was an abuse to allow a woman to give the homily, and also, man or woman, to use it as a platform to ask for donations.

My parish also excludes all references to gender, not only in the Creed but other places it would normally occur in the Mass. I simply say "he/him" anyway. I stay because that's really the only abuse I've witnessed. One more, and I'm outta there though.

If I were you, and you don't have strong ties to that parish, I'd look for another.

[sitetest]

Dear Conservative til I die,

The celebrant of the Mass may permit someone who is not a priest or deacon to make a short presentation that is not a homily. It should be done after the celebrant or deacon gives the homily, but the celebrant may dispense with the homily, altogether.

That the speaker made a plea for donations or funds differentiates the talk given from an actual homily, which ideally should be a reflection/explanation of the day's readings.

In the parishes that I frequent, occasionally the pastors will give the homily and permit a short talk of this kind to be given after the homily. Last year, we had a parish mission, and our pastor asked the priest and nun giving the mission to give a short explanatory talk about it immediately after the homily at each Mass.

As to altering the words of the Creed, well, what can I tell you? Some folks think they have magical powers.


sitetest

[26lemoncharlie]

I would mail an alert to the Vatican!

[26lemoncharlie]

Not sure if you have seen this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1449724/posts

[jec1ny]

I am not certain that something really serious happened here in terms of the homily. Was it a spiritual discussion based on the readings or a lecture on church teachings etc? Or was it more of a pitch for the sister's order? If it was the latter it may be permissible. The Church typically forbids women (and those not in Holy Orders)from preaching. But this is not a carved in stone rule that forbids others from making announcements or appeals that don't cross the line into preaching. Its not always a clear line. But it sounds like in this case (going on what I read only) that it might not have been the major infraction you may see it as. Weighed against all the other much more serious abuses I am seeing so frequently, this sounds like more of a traffic violation, if that. Deliberately omitting any part of the Creed however is another story altogether. Thats a theological felony.

[siunevada]

he very noticeably omitted the word "men"

To me, that's a display of ignorance of the multiple meanings of 'man' and 'men'. Do we imagine ourselves to be angels?

Gee whiz, even the USCCB knows changing the prayers is wrong.

Canon 846 of the Code of Canon Law states:
The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them.

Number 22 of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy states:
Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.
In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.
Therefore, absolutely no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
Therefore, no one may change any approved and confirmed liturgical text. This includes, but is not limited to the “Lectionary for Mass” and the “Sacramentary.” A href=http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/addword.shtml>Q&A

[siunevada]

Does anyone know what places I can refer to that might actually act to correct such abuses?

Isn't the usual procedure, first an informed and respectful talk with your pastor? You've got legitimate concerns, he should hear them. If you're not satisfied then it's off to the diocese, maybe they can direct you by email to the exact person to speak to about your concern.

Archdiocese of New York 1011 First Avenue New York NY 10022-4134 212-371-1000

e-mail: contactus@archny.org

I guess, ultimately, you could contact the curial office for Liturgy in Rome but it's the bishop's responsibility in every diocese to maintain the integrity of the liturgy. And the pastor is the representative of the bishop in the parish.

[heartwood]

I transferred to a conservative, orthodox parish. Every year on Mission Sunday a visiting mission speaker - either priest or religious - gives an appeal, in place of the homily. They aren't speaking about the readings, or some theology, but about their work.

[Salvation]

GIRM
General Instruction [for the] Roman Missal

[Conservative til I die]

The celebrant of the Mass may permit someone who is not a priest or deacon to make a short presentation that is not a homily. It should be done after the celebrant or deacon gives the homily, but the celebrant may dispense with the homily, altogether.

Hey there. The priest omitted the homily, or at least excused himself from it completely. The Maryknoll nun's speech took up the entire period between the Gospel reading and the Creed. Also, in addition to discussing the work of the Maryknoll missionaries, she did reflect directly on the Gospel reading, as Father might. This was definitely not the usual pre-collection announcemnt type of presentation.

[sitetest]

Dear Conservative til I die,

Just guessing on my part, but it sounds like they met the rubrics, if by a bit of a stretch.


sitetest

[BulldogCatholic]

Hey-it is all done in the spirit of Vatican II , the ICEL botched the translation, on purpose I might add, and it is the liberals who want the mass even more Protestant than it is already

[sitetest]

Dear BulldogCatholic,

Please don't post to me.

Thanks.


sitetest