Posted on 07/23/2005 9:15:15 AM PDT by netmilsmom
Well then, how about I slip a joy buzzer in my hand just before the "Our Father"?
"Well then, how about I slip a joy buzzer in my hand just before the "Our Father"?
I'll have to consult Don Camillo on that one and get back to you.
If every Bishop handled things so forthrightly...
Frank
Someone recently posted the fact that the "Orans" position of the hands is a "presidential" posture (meaning reserved to the Presider or Priest). I think it was either NYer or Aquinasfan, if memory serves (it rarely does any more!). In any case, I believe it is used only three times in the Mass and it is NOT encouraged for the laity as the laity are not to mimic postures reserved to the Priest celebrant. I think this began with the Charismatic movement.
Frank
Holding hands during Mass was something new when I moved to Milwaukee, but it is, I think, a great way to pray as a community - one Body. If all the Catholic churches were doing so every Sunday, could you imagine the power of the prayer? The Archdiocese in Milwaukee I'm pretty sure prefers this - Archbishop Dolan performed our 50th Anniversary Mass and made sure that everyone held hands. In fact, we reached across aisles. We have a large membership so it's very moving. Getting over the initial awkwardness is worth it.
Warsaw,
This Pope seems to believe that prayer--especially the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the ultimate worship--is vertical, not horizontal; God focused, not people focused. The old cathedrals were designed to lift our eyes and thoughts upwards to God. Now, the presider stares at us and feels the need to ad lib.
This is what the Holy Father seems to sense. I think the moves toward Gregorian Chant in the coming Synod are a first signal to where things may be going--the Divine. I am really hoping we get a strong signal at World Youth Day when, Lord willing, the kids will come home "stoked" about the Latin Mass. No, not just the Tridentine; even the Novus Ordo beautifully done.
Our patrimony is on hold and has been for 40 years. Who can say they were not moved at the funeral Mass and the Installation? People literally called EWTN and asked how they could convert. Holding hands while saying the Our Father and preparing to receive communion is so very wrong liturgically. It's all about us when we should be thinking solely of Him: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Sorry RIW, I beg to differ.
Frank
>>Holding hands during Mass was something new when I moved to Milwaukee, but it is, I think, a great way to pray as a community - one Body. If all the Catholic churches were doing so every Sunday, could you imagine the power of the prayer?<<
Isn't spiritually being together enough of a prayer? After all Jesus is there on the Altar, but not in a physical body. I would much rather have fellowship after Holy Mass.
If Jesus appeared visually to you Body and Soul, standing on the Altar, would you be looking for your neighbor's hand?
I would be laying prostrate on the floor knowing I am not worthy to meet His glance.
You know what's really funny, the man I'm discussing this with is from the Charlotte Diocese. When I posted what you did he stated that Bishop Jurgis made no clear statement there.
How about that for denial?
When I was at my old Protestant/Catholic Community, the seniors who would go to Florida for the summer, would come back to the new innovations. They, living through Vatican II, would just go along with anything because they didn't know that they didn't have to, thought they were wrong and the rest of the church was right or didn't want to look out of place. Like Mrs. Don-O, you could see these poor people grimace when someone grabbed their hands and pulled them up for the "Group Orans"
I would sit in the last pew at the corner with my six year old. When the Our Father started I would tell her to close her eyes and think of Jesus. I began to notice smiles around me and we got a little group going of non-hand holders in the two back pews!
It was not long after that I escaped.
We do it in our parish. Have since 1978 when it was the "in" thing to do. We also offer each other the sign of peace.
Maybe the good Bishop's evil twin brother "Skippy" posted this on the official Diocesan website for Charlotte, N.C. instead of His Eminence!
Sorry, Netmilsmom, I can think of no rationale response to that objection from your friend!
Frank
Hey, to each there own. It's only 3 minutes of an hour mass, and if someone doesn't feel like holding hands, don't. Not everyone participates, or they hold their hands up without holding their neighbors.
>>Maybe the good Bishop's evil twin brother "Skippy"<<
*snicker* That must be it.
I'm not a handholding type. I don't like community prayer either. My mom loves charismatic mass. I like to go in a corner by myself and am anti-social coming to my spiritual life.
I automatically do that when saying the our father. I don't think God cares. to each his own.
>> am anti-social coming to my spiritual life.<<
Me too!
Actually, I'm one of those "Old time religion" people. I'm so blessed to be in the parish I'm in. We sing Latin and Greek during Holy Mass and say the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel at the end.
It's like stepping into 1970. No guitars, no handholding, no fluff. We even say a rosary before.
(six masses, 4 priests and 750 families and growing. Life is good here!)
No hand holding in the eastern Catholic churches that I'm aware of. We're far too busy chanting and crossing ourselves.
No "sign of peace" either. It's not in the liturgy.
Not in the Maronite Church.
We're far too busy chanting and crossing ourselves.
Isn't that the truth!
No "sign of peace" either. It's not in the liturgy.
The Maronite Church includes the Sign of Peace in their liturgy. Our Lord also taught us that before we offer our gifts we must make peace with our brothers and sisters. The priest kisses the altar, places his hands on the chalice, then passes God's peace to the deacon, who then gives it to the acolyte, who passes it to the first person in the pews, who passes it to the next person, and so on. Very rich indeed!
Here is yet one more link brimming with information on the various Eastern Churches and their liturgies.
Sorry for the delayed reply, but thank you for that reference.
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